Question for VDJ user's

I am really digging VDJ but I can't seem to find a Keysignature scanner that will add the key tag to my files other than using MixMeister. Is there a program that will analyze for Keysignatures and auto add them to the mp3 tags for import into VDJ?

Possibly Rapid Evolution.

Seems to work... tried one song just to see how it works... the key signature found by mixmeister showed it as Dm but Rapid Evelution showes it as C so now I'm in a quandry as to which is accurate.

Any other idea's out there I've googled the crap out of this and haven't found anything reliable or easy to use except MixMeister...?

Rapid Evolution is ok but cumbersome to use.... all I want is an anylizer that will wright the tags so that VDJ will pick them up.

Rapid Evolution is the only one I know about. Have you tried the VDJ boards?

What surprises me is that VDJ beat scans but doesn't scan for keysignatures... for such an expensive program you'd think it'd do that.

Harmonic mixing is very nice espcially when beat mixing is used in conjuction with it....

While MixMeister does ruffly the same things and also scans for keysignatures it's not as easy to use nor does it have all the external option that VDJ has.

Soooooo many times when i trial software I find great points about one program that aren't in the other and I just wish software manu's would put it together in one package so folks like me don't need separate programs to do one thing and another to do something else and yet another to do the rest.... it's frustrating.

Try this one out...
http://www.mixedinkey.com/

Rob your my hero. I have been trying to explain Keys when mixing for yrs. I feel so many use these tools or even on vinyl and clash the keys so bad it sounds like gnashing of teeth mixed with finger nails on a chalk board and Pee Wee Herman Screaming. AKA TRAIN WRECK.

I just wish software manu's would put it together in one package so folks like me don't need separate programs to do one thing and another to do something else and yet another to do the rest.... it's frustrating.

Then there'd only be one company in business... :sqwink:


Back on topic:

Beat mixing by key signature, eh :sqrolleyes: :rofl:

You have any seeds left I can have...?

......

Soooooo many times when i trial software I find great points about one program that aren't in the other and I just wish software manu's would put it together in one package so folks like me don't need separate programs to do one thing and another to do something else and yet another to do the rest.... it's frustrating.


:sqlaugh: Absolutely true for EVERYBODY, I think. I usually use Rockit, but for some things I like the basic Mixmeister. And I also love many things in OTS. For that matter, I even like iTunes for its simplicty in converting to mp3.

BTW, only fairly recently did VDJ become expensive.... I think I paid $99 when I bought it.... maybe $149..... but the two cool things about VDJ are free updates for life, and the fact that the licensing agreement allows you to put it on as many machines as you like as long as you are the only operator.

The agreement that OTS uses is what really prevents me from buying their product - 1 license per machine, basically.....

That's why I use Rockit. Nice mix of everything. Nice price. Nice license, and of course, we actually have Rick who helps out tremendously.

...and of course, we actually have Rick who helps out tremendously.


Yer allowance check will be in the mail tomorrow Son :sqbiggrin:

Then there'd only be one company in business... :sqwink:


Back on topic:

Beat mixing by key signature, eh :sqrolleyes: :rofl:

You have any seeds left I can have...?

It doesn't really work like beat mixing... more or less harmonic mixing within software just simply shows the keysignature of the song.... which allows you to select songs that are within 1 or 2 steps of each other musically speaking...

The problem is how do you know what keysignature a song is in?

For that an analyizer is needed to find the main key of a song and then write that information to the mp3 file for the playback software to read and display... Then the DJ can see this information and not only select songs that are close in tempo but also in key so you don't end up with a horrible clash of keys causeing a disonance sound. Altho this sound is desireable when playing powerchords on the guitar it's not so desireable when playing pre-recorded music back.

Make sense?

Hey Rob,

I understand what you are saying, but, it's almost impossible for software to figure out the key to a song properly (unless at a given point in time, which is ultimately far too much overhead). That was my jest :)

Heck, trying to get the BPM, is more of an art, than a science.


I am a firm believer in knowing your music. I write this stuff for a living, and still will never trust a program to tell me what, and when to mix -- that's my ear's job, and I pay them well for that service :sqbiggrin:

IMHO, I could care less what key the song is in, as long as it mixes well with the next, and the audience digs it.

Since music is basically an exercise in mathmatics an alogrhythm can be developed to detect key signatures.... the accuracy of said alogrhythm is what is the problem right?

And since many songs change key's almost as readily as the artists change their underware this can make things even more difficult.

What a key detector, if you will, needs to do is read the overall key of a song or at a minimum the intro key.... that's enough to be able to harmonically mix knowing this information.

Sure one could search the internet for their songs transcriptions but in the end a transcription if not done by the original artist is just a guess as to the actual key of the song... albiet an educated one.

Software can be educated to do this otherwise MixMiester and others wouldn't be doing it...

But the problem you lay out is evident to me just in the one example in comparing Realavent Evolution to MixMeister they both came up with different keys for the same song.

What a key detector, if you will, needs to do is read the overall key of a song or at a minimum the intro key.... that's enough to be able to harmonically mix knowing this information.

Therein lies the problem Rob...

Let's say that you have software that gets the initial key of the song -- say an "A" for S&G.

1) You are not 100% sure, that it is an A. It is the programmers assumption, based on mathematical formulations that he/she used in their computations.

2) Latency. Latency to the out, differs from the original signal, and is not always as constant as we would like. So, you analyze a song, and it says the first dominant note is an A. That does not assure that the output from the speakers is an A.



If those two minor issues weren't enough, introduce the message based (or interrupt driven) operating system.

Windows, Unix and its variants (OS X, Linux, et. al), are all some form of the above. This introduces another level of latency, and non-constants.



Here's an example:

Let's say you are analyzing some songs for key signature. Did ya ever see all those svchost things in yer Task Manager? Probably.

What they do, is anybodies guess (mostly housekeeping chores, but other).

Now, yer analyzer just grabbed a few samples, puts them in an envelope, and tries to figure out the key based upon some human written algorithms. Many of those little routines, depend upon system timers. Well, Mr. SVCHost, decides he needs a bit more time slice (the bastard), and yer calculations go Kaput!


Love Stinks, and computers are only as good as the programmers

Trust yer ears, and the Force :) ;)

I must say you are probably right on many facts... and since I haven't truely tested thing except thru headphones thus far... I can't be sure my results are accurate but if the results are all based on the same equation so to speak... then it may be reasonable to assume that they are close enough for gov'nt work... and so far, thru my headphones, it sounds like it is at least close if not right on.

Try it with mixmeister and see how mixing harmonically does just using the keys that mixmeister finds.... use only 1 or 2 steps up or down from each song and see how they mix together harmonically....

I know I am probably "lame" to some of you, but all I concentrate on is playing the songs I think will work at that moment, regardless of ANYTHING else. I'm too busy watching body language or trying to show that I am having a good time too.

I know I am probably "lame" to some of you, but all I concentrate on is playing the songs I think will work at that moment, regardless of ANYTHING else. I'm too busy watching body language or trying to show that I am having a good time too.

I can understand that but having this information in front of you can also help make those transitions easier because you know the song will mix well and you can then focus more attention to the crowd as you say....