Cordless Mics Obsolete In 2009??

I want to buy one of these. Whats the difference between UHF and VHF?

Any reconmendations. Thanks

You might want to do a search here as wireless microphones and other wireless device we use are hot topics of discussion due to changes in federal laws, frequency allocations and use that will be taking place in 2009 after the digital tv conversion happens.

Short version: stay away from anything that operates above 700mHz.

The rest is still an ongoing issue as to what will happen.

IMO that mic is over rated. I have always preferred the sound and quality of Sennheiser mics.

I have two UHF ones and have never had an issue in the 100+ venues I've been in.
They are expensive, though... but worth it.


_DJ Joe

IMO that mic is over rated. I have always preferred the sound and quality of Sennheiser mics.

Others tell me Sure is better than Sennheiser?? :sqconfused:

IMO that mic is over rated. I have always preferred the sound and quality of Sennheiser mics.

You might want to do a search here as wireless microphones and other wireless device we use are hot topics of discussion due to changes in federal laws, frequency allocations and use that will be taking place in 2009 after the digital tv conversion happens.

Short version: stay away from anything that operates above 700mHz.

The rest is still an ongoing issue as to what will happen.

Hmmmmm I have a wedding to do this weekend and need one in the next day or two. I'm about to drop 400 on a wireless mic. What shoud I buy?

Anyone? I live in Northern California.

IMO that mic is over rated. I have always preferred the sound and quality of Sennheiser mics.



Stacy, first of all, I have been remiss. I happily welcome you here! I know you well enough to know you'll love it.

And now....The flip side. Shures are more highly recommended for karaoke use. Why? Senns definitely produce clear crisp sound- an absolutely beautiful mic. However, they are TOO good for karaoke. VERY unforgiving. Whereas they are great for top singers who know how to use the mic, that's not the majority of karaoke singers. The Senn is so good that it picks up every flaw, impediment , key drift, or anything else. A singer that sounds "pretty good" with a Shure may well sound, um......LESS than pretty good with a Senn..

The original post doesn't mention the purpose for the mic. If he's a pro singer looking for one to bring to gigs with his band, then a Senn. If he is only announcing for his DJ work, 1) It's too much to pay for that purpose alone, and 2) Even then he must have a good speaking voice, and if he's singing he has to be dead on....:sqwink:


So, GENERALLY speaking, for karaoke DEFINITELY Shure, for straight DJ work probably the same....

Also, whats better, the Shure PG58 or the SM58?

Also, whats better, the Shure PG58 or the SM58?


SMs are the better model

Stacy, first of all, I have been remiss. I happily welcome you here! I know you well enough to know you'll love it.

And now....The flip side. Shures are more highly recommended for karaoke use. Why? Senns definitely produce clear crisp sound- an absolutely beautiful mic. However, they are TOO good for karaoke. VERY unforgiving. Whereas they are great for top singers who know how to use the mic, that's not the majority of karaoke singers. The Senn is so good that it picks up every flaw, impediment , key drift, or anything else. A singer that sounds "pretty good" with a Shure may well sound, um......LESS than pretty good with a Senn..

The original post doesn't mention the purpose for the mic. If he's a pro singer looking for one to bring to gigs with his band, then a Senn. If he is only announcing for his DJ work, 1) It's too much to pay for that purpose alone, and 2) Even then he must have a good speaking voice, and if he's singing he has to be dead on....:sqwink:


So, GENERALLY speaking, for karaoke DEFINITELY Shure, for straight DJ work probably the same....

Joe, you make an excellent point and I think you are right for Karaoke but I still love my Sennheiser for DJING! :sqwink:

So, would it be a waste of $400 to buy a cordless mic this weekend if it wont work anymore in 2009??

Please help. Thanks

I would rent one if you don't need it often... or speak to Ben... he may have a solution already in hand. In fact, I think he does. If correct, it is $450...

UHF is the newer frequency and tends to cost a little more. The military bases that DJ at have a lot of RF interference with VHF so the money was better spent on a UHF.
If you can afford it by UHF.

As for Shure vs. Sennheiser, is personal preference. If you look on most live performance they use shure, but I am seeing more and more Sennheiser. I have used both brands last week and I use Shure.

Why would they be obsolete in 2009??

The channels currently used by wireless microphones are part of the spectrum shake up as a result of the US tv switching to digital per Federal Mandate that has been in motion since 1996. All frequencies about 700Mhz will no longer be available or legal for wireless microphones. Frequencies below 700mHz MAY be subject to interference from other wireless devices.

This is an on going situation that may not be resolved until 2009. The only thing that is for certain is anything above 700mHz is out.

What the heck am I going to do without my wireless microphone?! I'm dooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

To find out more use the search function with Keyword "Wireless" and that should pull up a majority of the discussion on this very important issue.

Suggestion to Mods, Could we consolidate all the wireless microphone/equipment frequency change info into a single Topic/sticky???

I have the Shure PGX24 SM58 and love mine... it's very clear and cuts right through my mix like a hot knife through soft butter....

I have used many different brands of wireless, Telex from back in the day (still works but looks awful), I have used the Senn's as well great mic but very sensitive to drops and other harsh treatment (they just didn't hold up), Audio Tecnica while some are still in use they are not being replaced with anything other than Shure (have experinced unexplained drop outs and one drop to the floor and they are basically history) Shure currently own 16 of them 4 VHF and 12 UHF units many have taken multiple drops without killing the mic, but the cases after a few drops will start craking up. A $117 trip to Shure and they work and look like new. 90% of the mics you see in live performances are Shure and that is for a reason their ability to hold up through use after use and performer after performer without failure or having to be replaced. Does it have the best performance of any mic out there? Absolutely not! Does it have the ability to handle the frequency range of DJ's or even most singers out here today? Absolutely!

We have the shure system for three of our guys. I personally use the EV-RE2 with the ND67 head and its the absolute best mic I've ever used, aside from an RE-20 in studio applications (but its quite pricey)

My Sure says 176.xxx mhz

My Gemini says 190.xxx mhz

Will those be affected?

G-Lou

Lou
no those are good

To find out more use the search function with Keyword "Wireless" and that should pull up a majority of the discussion on this very important issue.

Suggestion to Mods, Could we consolidate all the wireless microphone/equipment frequency change info into a single Topic/sticky???

Thread created as a sticky per Doug's suggegstion. I'll go thru the associated threads and merge them with this one.

I'm a Shure man too. Tried others & I always came back to Shure.

All frequencies about 700Mhz will no longer be available or legal for wireless microphones. .


Not set in stone yet. This is being fought virtually everyone- broadcasters ( news, sports, performers- ALL broadcasters), live performers, announcesrs, Everyone in at least 4 different countries. Why?


The US UHF mic frequencey range: 790 - 806 Mhz

German: 794 - 813 Mhz

France and the UK ( including Ireland, Scotland, etc...): 854.25 - 865 Mhz


That's a LOT of expensive equipment to make obsolete overnight. I'll beleive it when I see it.

I might add that I carry all multi-channel mics, and if I have a free channel, considering the range of transmission, I'm USING it..:sqcool:

...That's a LOT of expensive equipment to make obsolete overnight. I'll believe it when I see it.
Joe, I hope you're right. :)

There is a precedent. In 1945, the FCC decreed that the prewar FM 45 band would be used for television sound. They moved FM to the current 88-108 Mhz band we know today. Originally to be used for TV Channel 1, it was never used for television. Because of this reallocation, more than half a million FM receivers and some 50 transmitting stations would be rendered obsolete. An FM receiver was a very expensive luxury at the time. This misguided decision by the FCC set FM back decades.

Then as now, the FCC was more politically motivated than scientifically. In 1945 it was RCA that had the most money. Who can tell what political forces will determine the outcome of this latest change?

Fred, you are correct, but I believe the $$$$$ is something the FCC might have overlooked. Having to replace equipment in stadiums, TV stations, mobile TV studioss, etc. is going to piss off some very rich and connected people, as well as manufacturers, etc.

Thanks, Jacob.

That was the case with RCA in 1945. RCA was THE only game in town as far as the FCC was concerned. RCA had money and time. Plus, they had something new ~ television. Old man Sarnoff had the FCC in his pocket.

For my part, I hope the FCC listens to these guys. There is a lot of money and business at stake here. :)

I have 4 of the Audio-Technica 3141's - hand held - Wouldn't
trade these babies for anything...........Work beautifully and so
easy to use..........Use for weddings mostly, but have also used
them doing sound for bands..........

They're just like having an SM-58 with a cord - no radio noise
whatever - I can tweak my mixer a little, and make them sound
exactly like the corded mic. SM 58 or 58 Beta I'm using........

Good distance on them too.......... and they use AA batteries instead
of those pesky 9 volts and get excellent life on the batteries - they
have a low and a high power mode - have never had a need to put
them on high power and drain the batteries faster.............

These are $800 list mics - no way the karaoke people are going to
use my good cordless.......... they get an sm58 with 7 feet of cord -
that's it - combat feedback with the Sabine FBX 2400 feedback
exterminators - amazing how well they work when adjusted right....

And very user friendly - just a little tap button on the butt of the mic...

They are frequency selectable from 541-680 MHZ - I use the freq.
defaulted at the factory - never had interference in this market....

I think they look better than the classic "ball" style of the Shures....

(Hey - AT - you can send me the extra mic for tooting your horn !)

Samson makes a 25 channel VHF mic. Anybody know if it's any good? I mean, just in case?

So I dont know where vocopro falls in...no one has these for review!

I am buying a karaoke company in about 10 days....I have two sm48s....what should I be using?? Again cost is not an issue...I want the best mic for the best bang of the buck!

So I dont know where vocopro falls in...no one has these for review!

I am buying a karaoke company in about 10 days....I have two sm48s....what should I be using?? Again cost is not an issue...I want the best mic for the best bang of the buck!

SM48s are ok for a smaller room, SM58s are the standard, and generally regarded as better.

Now, would you be kind enough to share the details of " buying a karaoke company?" I believe that I may be able to help you avoid some shortfalls...

Are you buying hard goods ( equipment?) Are you buying a client list? Are you taking over venues? If you are more comfortable PMing, feel free. I wish to be of help. Example: If you paid to take over venues, I can only hope it was minimal. That takeover is actually only good for the first show. After that, the venue will decide whether to keep you- not the previous host. You are really just paying for a shot at those venues. Client list? A freebie with a bit of work. No need to pay. Hard goods? Well, if you are asking about mics, I'm guessing not. So the question is, what are you paying for, and why?

I don't mean to sound negative, but I've been at this awhile, and I don't wish to see you get burned...

Yea if you take a look that would be great.....I will pm you a list and you can give me some advice...awesome!


This company has booked $1200 a month in regular bookings. When...and if (Looks good so far).......I will keep those bookings + another bar which is interested that I deal with. So $2000 in bookings a month. I also will be getting some bookings this fall when the economy shapes up, and the summer ends. Bars this way have much trouble booking events during the summer, as everyone is at the lake or etc etc. August things start picking up, and October is a new rush of fresh air for the bars, as they become more busy!

Yea...I'll pm you this list of equip, and let me know what you think! Thanks

I do repairs on both shure and sennheiser mics.. While I personally prefer the sennheiser for Both DJ and karaoke, I do own a couple PGX and ULX systems.
The sennheisers are by far the more drop resistent of the two.. the Evolution series features a cast body that cannot break, and a superior shock mount system. The balls on the mic are squared, and rigid, so they don't dent like an SM-58. put it down on the table too hard, and you squish a nice dent into your ball.

The only parts I've ever seen actually break on a sennheiser are the LCD, and the battery door portion of the body. 99 percent of the time, I don't actually have to fix the mic. What happens is there is a small RF shield inside the end of the mic which loves to pop off when knocked hard. this dislodges and shorts out the mic board.. Not permanently, just temporarily... I take it apart, snap it back on, hot glue it, and it never happens again. I've also never had a single peep out of my sennheisers outside of leaving the practical range of the reciever. I've never changed the frequency of my mics in 4 years.

They are truly indestructable, and all parts are replaceable by the novice.

Shure Mics seem to split like a stuck pig when dropped... the newer PGX models are too easy to over tighten the battery door, and most people do... when it hits the floor, it explodes... I go through these battery doors at a rate of about 20 a month. most people buy a couple extras.

I'm not a big fan of the SM-58 period... it's the standard workhorse mic, but you'll rarely see performers who value vocal clarity using them. (country artists, vocalists, hosts, awards shows, etc...) rappers and rockers still love the old 58.

however, either way, an agile system with a pilot signal will be fine.

I did some home research with an HP spectrum analyzer, and signal generator, with an analog and digital sweep frequency from 600 mhz to 880 mhz. My Sennheiser mics were impervious to digital signal burst while the pilot signal was active.

Unfortunately, those who want a reliable wireless in a digital TV heavy market are going to have to buy a more expensive mic, but also buy the proper band for their market.

Most like shure and sennheiser have different bands they recommend for different regions. A or B here in Atlanta won't work well.. C is free and clear for the most part.

Call the mic manufacturer, tell them where you live and they'll recommend the proper band.. G.C. usually doesn't know this, and will sell you whatever...

magazines and those who want to sell you more mics are playing up the hype, but the manufacturers say that the quality mics should be OK..

Dingell to FCC: License White Spaces
House Energy & Commerce Committee chairman asks FCC to consider licensing white spaces between DTV channels.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6585734.html

Unlicensed-device tests yield conflicting interpretations from broadcasters, technology firms.
By Glen Dickson -- Broadcasting & Cable, 8/16/2008 7:00:00 AM

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6587901.html

Here's what's going on with where we used to be able to use wireless microphones and WHY any interference means trouble.

http://www.itworld.com/mobile-amp-wireless/54710/fcc-wireless-tests-aim-end-debate

Here's what I figure so far:

None of this seems to be in regard to the minimal range broadcast of a wireless mic. I'm not talking about frequencies ( which are still in question ), just the effect of the mics. I wouldn't be going to VHF just yet.

As a matter of fact, virtually ALL of the VHF frequencies now in use by wireless mics are also being used for other purposes. Though you may RECEIVE some interference on VHF, the limited range of a mic doesn't cause a problem for other users. If you have a channel with no interference, you use it.

Think about it. Back when CB was so popular ( the 27mH band ), The FCC allowed remote control toys to be made where the transmitter was right in the middle of the CB band. Why? Short range. You can buy toy wireless mics ( and cheap non-toy ) that can be adjusted to transmit any where on the commercial FM band. Why? Short range.

Therefore, the same goes for UHF mics. As long as you carry multi-channels, and can find a clear one, there's no reason not to use it. No harm will be caused to another user.

I will continue to use what I have so long as there is a clear channel.

That's assuming that there are any changes at all. There is a LOT of money and influence fighting it.


On a side note: I'm and old amateur radio guy, and hold the FCC at about the same level as ASCAP or any of the other low end artists reps.....but that's just me....:sqcool:

In reference to Steve Lynch's post on Sennheiser mics -

Yes, I've owned a G2 135 handheld for 3 years. First 2 years, no problems. But then at a wedding, the mute switch fell apart...so much for that.

I was able to send it back under warranty (actually an extended warranty through Sam Ash) & within 2 weeks it was back - repaired, & also replaced the battery housing which was getting some minor cracks. No charge.

Good service, but now I'm leary that the mute switch is gonna break again.

So, in a premptive move (it was in the 745-767MHz, C-band range), it's been replaced with an A-band EV RE-2.

Cheers.

Joe

To me, it's not that our mics will interfere with other devices, but whether other devices will interfere with our mics in that freq range. You get a powerful transmitter on the same freq your mic is using and you get the other signal. When I was with the multi op, we had single frequency mics. I was in a venue and everything was working fine, until the Karaoke guy downstairs started. Next I know, his singers where coming across on my speakers. I couldn't change and he wouldn't. I had to go wired the rest of the night.

To me, it's not that our mics will interfere with other devices, but whether other devices will interfere with our mics in that freq range. You get a powerful transmitter on the same freq your mic is using and you get the other signal. When I was with the multi op, we had single frequency mics. I was in a venue and everything was working fine, until the Karaoke guy downstairs started. Next I know, his singers where coming across on my speakers. I couldn't change and he wouldn't. I had to go wired the rest of the night.


I learned my lesson just this way- in a multi-venue- YEARS ago. ALL of my wireless mics have been multi-channel since. Even my "drunk mic" has 8 channels, The MIN on the good mics is 25 channels.

I am, however, considering a VHF mic made by Samson with 25 channels for a "drunk mic", but I can't seem to find anyone who has used it or that can give me any recommendation one way or the other...

FCC, Wireless Providers at Odds Over Plan for Unused Airwaves

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/10/AR2008101003074_pf.html

I learned my lesson just this way- in a multi-venue- YEARS ago. ALL of my wireless mics have been multi-channel since. Even my "drunk mic" has 8 channels, The MIN on the good mics is 25 channels.

I am, however, considering a VHF mic made by Samson with 25 channels for a "drunk mic", but I can't seem to find anyone who has used it or that can give me any recommendation one way or the other...

If you're looking for a 'drunk' wireless mic you could always get one of the lower end audio techna mics. This was the first wireless mic I ever used, it worked flawlessly, sounded very decent for my average singer *i didn't give it to any of my really good singers* and the last time I checked, you could get one for $149 Canadian or less. I'll see if i can find you a link..

-James

I have an old Audio Technica 202 VHF system I may part with. I have too many wireless systems and it's time to eliminate some clutter.

young...

If you're looking for a 'drunk' wireless mic you could always get one of the lower end audio techna mics. This was the first wireless mic I ever used, it worked flawlessly, sounded very decent for my average singer *i didn't give it to any of my really good singers* and the last time I checked, you could get one for $149 Canadian or less. I'll see if i can find you a link..

-James

I appreciate the suggestion but are they multi-channel? Young, how about your 202?

At the church I volunteer at we just had a huge switchover (to Sennheiser wireless) and we went over to full wireless. 30+ mics and 10 in ear monitor packs as our base, plus at least three times that in optional equipment.

We come up on Sunday and there is a huge block of wireless frequencies that are unusable! Wow, that was fun trying to find enough space to fit in the equipment. Then this past Saturday everything was full, then on Sunday suddenly everything was open.

Wireless is going to be hairy until February. Sennheiser is opening a new bandwidth to help, but depending on your area, things could be spotty.

Mike

At the church I volunteer at we just had a huge switchover (to Sennheiser wireless) and we went over to full wireless. 30+ mics and 10 in ear monitor packs as our base, plus at least three times that in optional equipment.

We come up on Sunday and there is a huge block of wireless frequencies that are unusable! Wow, that was fun trying to find enough space to fit in the equipment. Then this past Saturday everything was full, then on Sunday suddenly everything was open.

Wireless is going to be hairy until February. Sennheiser is opening a new bandwidth to help, but depending on your area, things could be spotty.

Mike

Actually AFTER February is when things will start to get interesting as the procrastinators will finally be switching over.

Actually AFTER February is when things will start to get interesting as the procrastinators will finally be switching over.

Oh heck yeah. Major suckage.

Left are part of the new recievers. Right is some of the new mics. Those belt packs are so small they are sick.

Mike

I appreciate the suggestion but are they multi-channel? Young, how about your 202?

Still trying to decide which wireless units I am going to part with. I'll keep you informed. I am doing an end of year inventory next week.

young...

I have posted in another thread that it looks like the FCC IS going to allow "White Space Devices" into the mix as well, so look out here we go!!!

216 – 223MHz
678 – 686MHz
798 – 806MHz
885 – 890MHz
930 – 935MHz
1466 – 1480MHz
1780.1 – 1785MHz
1875.1 – 1880MHz
2010 – 2019.7MHz
2305 – 2390MHz
2500 – 2690MHz
This is the list I found... These are the sold frequencies or at least the ones we will no longer be able to use...

I appreciate the suggestion but are they multi-channel? Young, how about your 202?

Oh well then that wouldn't do you any good, cause i don't think the one I had was. There was a dipswitch you could set to choose between two frequencies but that was it.

-James

The television industry looks likely to lose its hard-fought battle against computer companies over allowing unlicensed devices to operate in the so-called “white spaces” of the broadcast spectrum.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6607878.html?desc=topstory

Looks like we may get screwed by Gates & Microsoft if you follow the money!

Media Chiefs Seek Delay on White Spaces Vote
News Corp., Disney, CBS and NBC Universal chiefs ask FCC Chairman Kevin Martin to offer white spaces report for public comment

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6608070.html


New York City Council Weighs In On White Spaces
Council unanimously passes resolution urging FCC to hold off on vote.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6608249.html

If you thought that the battle over white space devices might cool down after the Federal Communications Commission issued its own engineering report on the technology, think again.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081023-white-space-battle-gets-dirty-as-the-mud-flies.html

Microsoft's Craig Mundie tells reporters "no justifiable reason" to delay FCC vote on proposed devices
By Glen Dickson -- Broadcasting & Cable, 10/27/2008 2:22:00 PM

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6608913.html

(Here's where Bill Gates whips out the checkbook to get his way once again!!!)

Group of 100 musicians sign letter calling for FCC to put white spaces report out for comment.
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 10/28/2008 2:39:00 PM

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/CA6609220.html

Lawmakers, tech chiefs chime in on the white spaces issue.
By Glen Dickson -- Broadcasting & Cable, 10/28/2008 6:00:00 PM

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6609317.html

Nov. 4 agenda released late Tuesday includes contentious vote on allowing mobile, unlicensed devices to share broadcast spectrum
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 10/28/2008 11:52:00 PM

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6609326.html

http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0100/t.15991.html

FCC Report is available at this link:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-08-2243A3.pdf

The published guidelines allow manufactures to create protocols and build compatible devices.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-08-260A1.pdf