FBT vs. RCF?

Just curious on peoples opinions on the FBT powered tops compared to the RCF's.

I always liked my FBTs. They sounded great, weren't heavy to transport and were very durable.

I had 3 of the FBT Maxx 2A (2 for the gig, 1 in the car as backup, or to be used as a ceremony speaker, if the ceremony were outside, or in another room), and I also had the FBT Maxx 9SA sub.

http://www.jpleisure.co.uk/MaxX2.jpghttp://www.jpleisure.co.uk/MaxX9S.jpg

I bought them at Electronic Bargains (http://www.ebdj.com).

I always liked my FBTs. They sounded great, weren't heavy to transport and were very durable.

I had 3 of the FBT Maxx 2A (2 for the gig, 1 in the car as backup, or to be used as a ceremony speaker, if the ceremony were outside, or in another room), and I also had the FBT Maxx 9SA sub.

http://www.jpleisure.co.uk/MaxX2.jpghttp://www.jpleisure.co.uk/MaxX9S.jpg

I bought them at Electronic Bargains (http://www.ebdj.com).

Thanks John,
I agree with you 100%. I love the way they sound and love the fact that they are so light.
I have a pair of the 12's, as well as a pair of the subs. I just flipped the subs to one of my partners and picked up the Yorkville ls 800 p.
I use that set up for smaller jobs, as well as cocktail and/or ceremony set ups.
I know RCF is an excellent brand, but I never heard their powered tops. I was just curious. Thanks again John.
Why did you get rid of them?

I have the FBT Maxx6A's ...awesome box. I did an 80 person wedding 3 weeks ago; didn't bring the sub, sat the tops on the floor.....They sounded great !!!!

I think FBT for some reason or another are a bit pricey compared to the equivalent RCF box (distribution issues?). I believe though, that FBT uses RCF drivers.....

I have the FBT Maxx6A's ...awesome box. I did an 80 person wedding 3 weeks ago; didn't bring the sub, sat the tops on the floor.....They sounded great !!!!

I think FBT for some reason or another are a bit pricey compared to the equivalent RCF box (distribution issues?). I believe though, that FBT uses RCF drivers.....

Thanks Steve. I agree, it's because of the shipment that they are so pricey, but I think that it's definitley money well spent.

FBT by a nose!

I heard both the FBT's and the RCF's last year at the AC DJ Times show.... I liked the FBT's a LOT MORE.... but I never did get to hear an FBT sub... the RCF sub was nice, though.

You knew this post was coming, didn't you? LOL

They are both great speakers. I own two pair of the FBT Maxx 4a's and work them hard regularly, usually without a sub. They are very smooth sounding speakers with very strong bass output at 50Hz. There have been times when I've used one pair on stands and the second on the floor as subs, that is the beauty of having a built-in 3 band EQ with the low-band trim at 80Hz. They weigh in at about 33 pounds a piece which sure comes in handy when I have to haul them up a flight of stairs, like up at Grouse Mountain last weekend... FBT uses state-of-the-art B&C Italian made drivers with lightweight neodymium magnets on their lightweight speakers. Even their 10Sa sub has a neo magnet on the woofer and it is supposed to eat the Art 705AS for breakfast! B&C and RCF are two of the better speaker manufactures in the world, you can't go wrong with either brand.

I also own a pair of RCF Art 705AS subs that I can pair them up with on larger jobs but sometimes I feel that I don't really need them. The sound I get out of the four 4a's on their own is awesome and more than enough for most of my typical applications. I even did 50 kid school dances with that set up and the bass was strong and clear on the dance floor.

It would be a tough decision on which brand I would buy if I had to purchase again. A powered RCF 322A is priced much lower but has more output, but also weigh 50 pounds... The FBT 4a is believe puts out much more than they claim, cost a bit more but weighs much less.... According to spec's on paper, the RCF 310A is lighter and has more output then the FBT4a, it's also priced lower. I would like to do a head-to-head of the 310A vs. the 4a to see what would really happen. I just can't see a 10" powered box out doing a 12" powered box. But then again, that's exactly what the FBT 4a did to the JBL G2... Mike Pyle, can you shoot-out the two speakers in your store?

Steve, I like the FBT so much that if I had 6A's, I don't imagine I would ever even want a sub for the types of events I do... I like the way you described them... "smooth".

One extra 4a comes in handy for ceremony's. Then later at the reception you can throw it on the ground, under your table or at the foot of your speaker tripod, jump an xlr from one of the other 4a's to it and turn down the mid and highs. Voila, mini wannabe sub-woofer! Works really good!

You knew this post was coming, didn't you? LOL

They are both great speakers. I own two pair of the FBT Maxx 4a's and work them hard regularly, usually without a sub. They are very smooth sounding speakers with very strong bass output at 50Hz. There have been times when I've used one pair on stands and the second on the floor as subs, that is the beauty of having a built-in 3 band EQ with the low-band trim at 80Hz. They weigh in at about 33 pounds a piece which sure comes in handy when I have to haul them up a flight of stairs, like up at Grouse Mountain last weekend... FBT uses state-of-the-art B&C Italian made drivers with lightweight neodymium magnets on their lightweight speakers. Even their 10Sa sub has a neo magnet on the woofer and it is supposed to eat the Art 705AS for breakfast! B&C and RCF are two of the better speaker manufactures in the world, you can't go wrong with either brand.

I also own a pair of RCF Art 705AS subs that I can pair them up with on larger jobs but sometimes I feel that I don't really need them. The sound I get out of the four 4a's on their own is awesome and more than enough for most of my typical applications. I even did 50 kid school dances with that set up and the bass was strong and clear on the dance floor.

It would be a tough decision on which brand I would buy if I had to purchase again. A powered RCF 322A is priced much lower but has more output, but also weigh 50 pounds... The FBT 4a is believe puts out much more than they claim, cost a bit more but weighs much less.... According to spec's on paper, the RCF 310A is lighter and has more output then the FBT4a, it's also priced lower. I would like to do a head-to-head of the 310A vs. the 4a to see what would really happen. I just can't see a 10" powered box out doing a 12" powered box. But then again, that's exactly what the FBT 4a did to the JBL G2... Mike Pyle, can you shoot-out the two speakers in your store?
:rofl:
I saw that one comming!
What can I say? I don't know what I was thinking! lol. I'll stick with my FBT's. I never had any complaints with them, but I was just curious on how the RCF's put out. You know.. I have the adapters for my FBT's that hold both tops on one stand.. and one of my partners also has a pair of FBT's with an adapter. How awesome would that sound.. 2 FBT's one each stand with a Yorkville ls 800p in the middle??!! :sqeek:

I heard both the FBT's and the RCF's last year at the AC DJ Times show.... I liked the FBT's a LOT MORE.... but I never did get to hear an FBT sub... the RCF sub was nice, though.

What do you have Papa?

FBT by a nose!

Hey Jon,
You would love the FBT's... nice & light!!

I will go RCF as Im planning to match em to the RCF subs and eventually be going with the next great Bose experience. For my final rig.

Not bad Jon, Not bad..

I heard some of the FBT tops last year. They sounded pretty sweet.

I haven't heard the RCF tops, but I own thier 4PRO-8002-AS sub and I'm super happy with it.

I ran the 6A's on the floor and was amazed by the bottom end... The horns put out sweeeet highs...never harsh...I was simply blown away. I'm doing a wedding this weekend - 75 people. I may put the tops on the floor and leave the sub in the van.....

What do you have Papa?

Well, I have JBL's... but I rushed to a decision far too quickly...

Steve, try this... Put the speakers up on the stands for cocktails and dinner. Then drop them to the floor for the dancing portion that way you get more bass out of them and the sound will stay more on the dance floor. I do that quite often to get that extra bass out of them. It makes a HUGE difference as you know. I'm talking 4a's here but you've got the 6a's which should give you plenty of thump even on stands. No way you need a sub for 75 people, are you kidding me?

Thanks Maestro...I may try that.....

Steve Maestro is right... set 'em on the floor and you'll have the coupling effect for warmer lows response.

As far as a 12" cab versus a 10" cab versus a 15" cab, sensitivity and tone response are due to cabinet design, not necessarily driver size. Where the cabs are placed makes a big difference as well.

This is something I've scritched my old, gray head about many a time. Folks invest in 15" three-way cabs, place 'em on stands, drive 'em full range and wonder why they don't get bass warmth. :)

Why did you get rid of them?
I sort of got real sick in the past couple of years, especially the past 12 months.

I kept one of the FBT Maxx 2A's and have it hooked up to my satellite dish receiver in my office.

Gonna rattle some windows!

...I just can't see a 10" powered box out doing a 12" powered box. But then again, that's exactly what the FBT 4a did to the JBL G2... Mike Pyle, can you shoot-out the two speakers in your store?

The 12"s will beat the 10"s. Just in terms of output, they are about the same, and used with a sub the ART310 will keep up fine. But used alone the 10" has little thump. You can eq it to add some bass for small parties, but that will not be satisfactory for louder use.

The RCF ART312a and the Maxx4a are a good comparison. With no eq the RCF sounds flatter. The FBT has a slight smiley face in the sound. The output spl is very close, although I think the RCF sounds smoother when you hit the limiters, probably because the low frequency in the FBT limits before the highs.

The FBT's 6a do have nice warm sound to them. They sound nice with a powered 15" sub. I like the way my 325's sound for the cost. I looked at FBT's before I purchased my RCF's, but my main concern was how hard it would be to get them serviced in the States.

I may try this trick with 2A's on stands and 4A's on the floor..I love my FBT's..But bought them at a pretty good discount from NS&L in Pittsburgh which no longer carries them..I have a double BOSE system too so am not looking to buy any more Speakers anytime soon..Not looking to sell any either.

I swear Don, you'll think you're running subs if you do that!

I swear Don, you'll think you're running subs if you do that!

I see what your saying Steve, & agree to a point, but you can do that with any top (especially a powered top with an on board EQ, such as the EON's).. but there's only so much bass that you're going to get out of a top, why not just by subs?

From my standpoint,Two Reasons: First-I already own both Two 2A's and Two 4A's and Second- Weight..Add to that the fact Overall I don't play that Much Hip-Hop and Bass Heavy Music..This is also why the Bass from The BOSE B1's is more than plenty for me..If my Gigs were to a larger degree Hip-Hop,Then I might say something else.

From your stand point, I can see what you're saying.. you allready own the speakers and with the non demand of heavy bass music.... But if you didn't have equipment allready, and you had larger crowds to play for, you would need more thunder (in my opinion).

There's truth to this. :)

Sub cabs are used to provide lows warmth. Yup, they come in handy when you need to rattle the dust out of the rafters. Even when you don't need to do that, a sub can fill out your tone with bass warmth that can be heard throughout the house.

I consider the Bose 2 L1/4 B1 My "Big System" with Bass Warmth...Any event that I did not deem it sufficient to cover,I would decline and refer it to others more capable..I consider it overkill for many of my events and sometimes use just Two 4A's..Please also keep me in mind I do everything "Totally Solo" and am in my Second Half Century.

Spinner, it depends on what type of crowd you play for. Don is just fine to use what he has for weddings. For schools, subs are great but for weddings, a pair of 4a's on the floor with put our bass pretty almost equal to a single 705 sub.

When I use a pair of 4a's to play my jazz recordings through dinner, there is much bass warmth and to be honest, I prefer the sound without my subs. I can raise the speakers up as high as they'll go on the TS-90- Ultimate stands for cocktails in a big room and the full range sound goes everywhere. I find that the guests never complain about it that way either.

If you are a typcial mobile DJ, you would probably get more use out of four good quality powered tops than you would two tops and two subs. Of course, your mileage may very. I do own four FBT 4a's and a pair of RCF Art-705AS subs. I quite often bring one 705 sub with a pair of 4a's but before I had the 705's I would use two in the air and two on the ground with incredible results.

If a mobile has two pair of tops, he can run a pair in another room if needed or for a ceremony or whatever. A sub by itself, on the other hand, sounds brutal for a ceremony! LOL

PS: I have been a bass player for 25 years...

You're 100% right Steve. Every crowd is different, as well as DJ's.
As we all know, things vary depending on where we are all located.
Peoples demands are different depending on where you are. The difference in what people want between 2 states that are so close, such as New York & New Jersey can vary drastically. From music format, to elaborate light & video set ups.. to how a DJ would set up for just a basic "music only" job. For example, in New York (the 5 boros), you rarley see a DJ incorporate a table facade in his set up.. where in New Jersey, it's quite common. Music that would be played at alot of Jersey weddings would be considered "cheesey" music compared to what most people would want to hear in N.Y. In some areas, people would consider intelligent lighting and/or video tacky, where in other areas, elegant. Of course peoples tastes vary, I understand that,.. I'm just talking as a whole. Over 90% of our jobs are weddings. A small system for us would be just two powered tops (JBL EONS G2's or FBT 4a's). We would use that for a party of 50 to 75 people. Anything from let's say 75 to 100 people, we would bring a sub into the picture. Our big set ups start with 2 EAW JFX 590's with at least 1 EAW SB 250. Then we take it from there. Don't get me wrong, we have done weddings with 300 plus people that didn't care if we were to bring a clock radio into the hall, (nothing worse than seeing that after you just set up all that sound, lol).
I have a friend who does every job with 2 EON's.. no matter what the size. His attitude (not that I agree with him) is, "They don't care.. just play the songs that they want to hear". He is a single op. so he wants to "get in" & "get out", and collect the $$$. He is right to a certain degree.. the guests are not going to be any where near as crucial on presentation as we DJ's are.. but you also never know if a fellow DJ is going to be one of the guests sitting out there. Me.. I have OCD, lol. I'd rather go out there with more fire power & not need it, than not enough & need it. Again, that's only my opinion.

A pair of Eons has its place. I have seen smallish combos ~ pan flute and barbershop quartets at the state fair and street festivals using a pair of Eons with great results. There you have a rather smallish audience as well.

For full range sound in a crowded, noisy venue, a pair of Eons on sticks ain't gonna do. You may get away with a bi-amped rig using the Eons as mid tops and a big honkin' sub with decent processing. But you'd do well to have some serious amp headroom behind it.

You won't have amp headroom with active cabinets, sorry about your luck. :)

A pair of Eons has its place. I have seen smallish combos ~ pan flute and barbershop quartets at the state fair and street festivals using a pair of Eons with great results. There you have a rather smallish audience as well.

For full range sound in a crowded, noisy venue, a pair of Eons on sticks ain't gonna do. You may get away with a bi-amped rig using the Eons as mid tops and a big honkin' sub with decent processing. But you'd do well to have some serious amp headroom behind it.

You won't have amp headroom with active cabinets, sorry about your luck. :)

Hey Fred,
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you..
You have more than enough head room with a pair of EON G2's or FBT 4a's with a crowd of only 50 people...

Something no one has mentioned is what rates are you charging for various events..I think a client who is paying $1,500. for an event is in a position to be more picky about gear,bass,set-up,appearance,lights,etc. than one who is paying $500..For $500. I'll take the attitude of I'll play the right tunes..Get In..Collect the $$$ and get out...The day I discover I can get $1,000. for a 4 Hour wedding in my market,I'll look at it differently..I've seen DJ's go all out with Big Gear..Heavy Subs..Big Trusses and Intelligent Lighting..Then not able to get the rates desired for all their effort.. and get out of the Biz for something more lucrative..Me,I'll settle for somewhat lower rates to just play the right music..Get in and Get Out..And Have Gigs.

Something no one has mentioned is what rates are you charging for various events..I think a client who is paying $1,500. for an event is in a position to be more picky about gear,bass,set-up,appearance,lights,etc. than one who is paying $500..For $500. I'll take the attitude of I'll play the right tunes..Get In..Collect the $$$ and get out...The day I discover I can get $1,000. for a 4 Hour wedding in my market,I'll look at it differently..I've seen DJ's go all out with Big Gear..Heavy Subs..Big Trusses and Intelligent Lighting..Then not able to get the rates desired for all their effort.. and get out of the Biz for something more lucrative..Me,I'll settle for somewhat lower rates to just play the right music..Get in and Get Out..And Have Gigs.

Like I said before.. that's pretty much the same attitude that my pal has. I guess it comes down to that old saying.. "You get what you pay for". If you're charging $500 for a 4 hour wedding, then I can understand your point. I wouldn't go all out either.. To be quite honest, I wouldn't even think about taking the job.

I turned down a wedding for October where the groom to be had seen me at a small event where I just used a Fender Passport P-250..He wanted me as a DJ but it also became clear that the couple wanted Big Equipment,Heavy Subs,Intelligent Lighting on a Truss,etc...I declined and referred him to a DJ company that offers these things but he was unwilling to pay the $1,000. quoted rate..He then called a "Friend" who "supposedly" has these things and agreed to do it for $500.

Hey Don,
It has to be location then, that's the only thing that I could think of, because over by me, a wedding with music & lights would start at around $2000. A music only job (birthday, engagement, retirement etc. / not a wedding) would start at around $700. That's not to say that a client couldn't get another DJ to do the job for $400, but it would most likely be a kid just breaking into the business.

My next purchase, hopefully 2008...a pair of the 310A's....I'll use them with my 705AS sub for most events and hail out the 6A's for larger events or as additional "cheater" subs......

On a similar note to what Steve Maestro was talking about-I last night did a 75 Kid Middle School Band Camp Dance(A second one tonight) with the Fender Passport P-250 on Stands and 2 Yamaha MS400's on the Floor..The Yamaha's are 400 Watt Per Channel 15 Inch Active Speakers that were discontinued..They weigh 53 Pounds as does the Fender Passport..Unlike Mackie SRM 450's,The Yamaha's Run Cool and seem to benefit form Processing Going In..The Adults present were complaining about the Bass and Volume ..If you are in my situation and 1. Can't Lift Much and 2. Operate in a Tough Economic Area..You find ways to work around everything such as What I just described..My FBT Active Speakers and the BOSE System are other weapons in my aresenal.