Kinda complicated, opinions please

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I'll try to make this as short as possible.

About a month ago I got a client passed to me by another dj company that backed out on them. This other company already had the contract signed and received the retainer for the date.

The retainer was forwarded to me and I started planning the reception. The bride had expressed major concern about her reception. We then exchanged about 10 emails as I made an effort to put her mind at ease. It seemed to work.

Now this event would be around $900 to book with my company. The other company booked them for $550 which I was willing to honor. It is 4hours of dj/mc, a light package and a video projector with a 6' x 8' screen to show a photo montage and videos.

We made an appointment to meet today for a new contract signing and to get all the details squared away for their wedding. I put quite a few hours already into planning and preparing their reception.

Ok, so today I drive an hour and 10 minutes to an outdoor sports bar. I arrive a half hour early and order 2 drinks and an appetizer to not seem like a mooch as I hold up a table. This is gameday in Gainesville Florida while the gators are playing auburn today. Gainesville is packed. I spend about $20 on this junk and about $10 in gas, as well as 3 hours of my time today.

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I get home and have a call on my answering machine at 4:10pm. It says we must of just missed each other. I sent her an email immediately. This is what I sent her. Tell me if you guys agree or not or have any suggestions on how I should of or could of handled this.


the email:

Kimberly W*****,

I arrived at Calico Jacks at 1:30pm and waited until 2:15pm. The drive to Calico Jacks is over an hour for me each way. When I make an appointment I expect both parties to be punctual. If you were running late you could of called me, all my contact numbers are clearly listed on my website. The day ended up costing me approximately $35. I was already discounting your package by over $300 for your prior arrangement with *** but cant continue to take a loss with this event.

I am sorry to say that I will be returning your retainer for the date that you had paid *** entertainment. I received $200 from *** and I have your address as 2**0 sw w***** road #2** , Gainesville, Fl. 32608. Please confirm this information to be accurate and I will send the retainer right after getting confirmation.


Robert - djsolutions4you.com





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What do you guys think?

-Puma-

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I would have called. Your email instantly screams "defensive" mode. Benefit of the doubt? Maybe a family emergency, etc. I do see your point about all the prep work already spent on it and the driving meeting.

Something I'd watch out for next time Puma, avoid being quick on the email. I say this over myself as well. We (as humans) like to jump to conclusions and pounce quickly. Get some time to soak it in and think rationally. :)

Sounds fine to me me....had she given you any sign during your meetings that she was "flaky"?

The only thing I would have done differently is I would have talked to the other DJ. How many times have you had DJ's hand you business where the date in question is an open date for them??

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Well, she called me and left a message and didnt say anything happened on her end. She just said that we must of just missed each other. I was there for 45 minutes.

She was kinda flaky, she expressed alot of "concern" about the other dj company and forwarded all the emails she had with the other company. I found that kinda weird.

I did talk to the other dj, he said he had an unexpected event come up for that date and he would be out of town now.

-Puma-

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She also never gave me any cell phone #. She could of called me since she was the one late. She had my cell phone #

-Puma-

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Not sure if it'll help, but here is how I do business:

If YOU are paying me, and absolutely feel the need to meet me beforehand,I will pick up the tab, and either meet you at your home, or the venue (venue preferred).

If *I* am paying you, you need to come to me (I honor above).


Why people like to meet at restaurants, or coffee shops, is beyond me. You are telling them you will make the most important night of their lives, the best!

You better know their life then, and either meet them at home, or at the venue, where both parties can brainstorm.


It should be in DJ101, that you meet them at the venue!

Feel free to credit me :)

"If it looks like a duck....walks like a duck....it's a duck!"

She sounds "Flaky", and if you knew the truth I will bet the other DJ had no last minute booking.......

My reaction would be based on "when" the event is... If it is soon, I would cut them more slack because I want their money, if it's next year and I wouldn't worry about filling the date, I wouldn't give them as much slack.

I do agree with Travis, your e-mail did come off as not very nice IMHO.

I also agree with Rick,,, why would you want to meet someone, to talk about their wedding day at a Sports Bar on game day?

And I do agree with you, she had your cell number, she should have called. Even once she got there and could not see you, she should have called.

And by "drinks" I hope the heck you meant Coke or Juice not a "DRINK"

For the record, it's could have called, not could of called.

This story is why I had an office in my home. If a prospect ever stood me up, I was already home. Let them come to you.

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well, 1 she picked the place. its right next to a bridal shop and mall she was shopping at.

2. it was sweet tea and a coke for my wife. Im no crumb, but thanks :p

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anyway
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Ok well we just got off the phone. It appears that they were sitting in the same place but made no effort to locate me or contact me. I walked up to several people right next to them and asked if they were Kim, loud enough for my wife to hear me several feet past where they were sitting.

She said that she forgot to bring my phone #. They never even looked at me. I had my bright red folder with a giant dj solutions logo sticker on it sitting right on the table next to these people.

I offered to meet her one more time this monday about 1 mile away from my house.

I'm not tickled about the price but I did agree to it and I will provide her with the best service possible. It was just the idea of not meeting me.

Oh and I also have a big picture of my face on my website so people know what I look like.

I'll see how it goes.

-Puma-

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My thoughts, if it's any help:

Why did the other DJ company bail out? Weren't they under contract with this person? With the exception of a serious emergency, they could lose their shirts over this. Last time I checked, serious emergencies aren't planned in advance.

One does not just walk out of a contractual agreement. Both parties must agree to a cancellation in writing.

While I agree with your thoughts in the email (I'd have been royally ticked off too), it was a reaction to a less-than-satisfactory situation. I can't blame you for being irritated, though.

Please bear in mind that this person is not yet your client. You have no contractual obligations to fulfill. Neither does she. Should you return her retainer fee, ensure that the refund is traceable.

That being said, no one knows your situation with this prospect better than you. The rest of us could speculate all day but we're not the ones dealing with her.

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The other dj said he had a family wedding come up that he had to attend. I'm really trying to work with this bride. She has been upset throughout this whole thing. I had her talked down and her mind set at ease until today.

I hope it all works out. Kinda weird how it all went down today.

-Puma-

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Well do me a favor..."Puma", I don't know your first name, sorry....irrespective how this turns out, let us know all the details.

Very good lessons can be learned here, either way.

Meaning if my evaluation is to harsh and she is just having a case of the nerves, jitters :sqeek:or if in fact She was jacking you around, for whatever reason.

A lot of us can learn from a situation like this, given all the facts, with the hope of preventing this happening to us in the future.....:sqfrown:

Puma : The other dj said he had a family wedding come up that he had to attend.Sure they did. A family wedding that paid a couple hundred more than what they palmed off on you? [Sorry. Naturally skeptical and cynical about these "handoffs"]

Sorry handsome, but sympathy is reluctantly given for one who takes pass though referrals at a "less than what I normally charge" fee, that is unless they can't get bookings without them, which is then totally understandable.

You have now been burned by the other DJ company as well as the B2B. Either have her pay your fee or walk away...thx

DJ Puma : That last post of mine was really acid and I'm sorry. One should put away the keyboard after a 5 hour wedding at 2:44am.

There's no doubt more detail here than you can explain as we didn't hear any of the conversation thus are lacking in the insight gained from "ya had to be there."

Your gut will guide you. Regardless, the email was a tad bit of a nastygram. Say it in person if that's what you feel, but don't commit it to paper that can be used against you should she become bitter.

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Well I am only into my second year of business. I am 4 months into the second year. I am just trying to get input from some seasoned vets around here so I can improve my business in every aspect.

As far as geting accounts, I'm not competing with anyone or anything like that. I dont take every event that calls me. I actually have trned down a few already this year. But I have already booked as much $$$ in the 4 months of this year as I did my entire first year in business. I also have 2 pretty big accounts pending contracts signed. One is a pretty big private prom being held by a rich family at a country club.

I feel I am doing quite well and am happy with my business. i was just looking for suggestions or criticism and I appreciate everyone for it.

-Puma-

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Well, Like I said I had rescheduled another meeting for this couple on Monday about 1 mile from my house at a friends resteraunt.

I just got a call from the groom and they cancelled that meeting saying that 7:30 is kinda late in the evening. Intead they would like to meet next Sunday at a park at 6:00 pm.

There wedding is October 27th and the meeting is now scheduled for October 7th. I have yet to get a contract signed by these people and have nothing other than the songs they want played and not played which is quite an extensive list.

I dont mean to sound like I'm whining, but it is alot of fussing with this event. Especially since I took this event as a favor for this other company and I felt bad for the bride.

oh well, I will stay positive and put as much effort into this wedding as I possibly can.

-Puma-

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Well, Like I said I had rescheduled another meeting for this couple on Monday about 1 mile from my house at a friends resteraunt.

I just got a call from the groom and they cancelled that meeting saying that 7:30 is kinda late in the evening. Intead they would like to meet next Sunday at a park at 6:00 pm.

There wedding is October 27th and the meeting is now scheduled for October 7th. I have yet to get a contract signed by these people and have nothing other than the songs they want played and not played which is quite an extensive list.

I dont mean to sound like I'm whining, but it is alot of fussing with this event. Especially since I took this event as a favor for this other company and I felt bad for the bride.

oh well, I will stay positive and put as much effort into this wedding as I possibly can.

-Puma-

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Just an observation from experience which is what you asked for. Here are a few signs to watch our for...thx

Puma, You may want to consider asking them to fax or mail the contract back to you. I would say something like:

Hi Kimberly,
I wanted to mention to you we really need to receive a signed contract. Is there anyway that you could please fax or mail it back to me?

Atleast then you will have that. I usually invite the couple to my house if possible for client consultation meeting. That way there is no chance they can say they missed you.

This is going to be a rough one. I feel bad for you. Get through it and chalk it up to experience.

One thing i've learned is that if I am driving some distance to meet someone...the first thing I do is tell them i will be calling them to confirm before I leave...I get the phone number they will be at...and then i always ask for a cell phone so I can call them If we can't find each other.

Just recently I had an appointment with someone that I had scheduled a few weeks before. I called the day before and asked her to confirm...called twice that day and asked her to confirm....no response...so I didn't drive 45 miles...I left her a message saying I didn't hear from her so I'm not coming....a few days later she sent some email about having some challenges and I told her to call me to reschedule.
We accept faxed contracts, scanned contracts, credit cards and use on-line planners...that way we can quickly find out who is serious about booking us for a wedding and letting us know what they want. When we get together, it's more about getting to know them than going over what songs they want played.

In my opinion, it's much more help to this bride to guide her into getting this thing planned and off her plate than to keep holding her hand while she doesn't follow through.

I always confirm when enroute good call Scott.

Without a signed contract, I wouldn't be wasting my time with planning, I don't care who referred them. Business is business.

OK, I was kind of in the same situation. Another company, a single op and friend messed up an double booked. He asked if I was available and I picked it up from him.

He refunded the retainer (now called Contract Signing Payment) and they sent me the retainer with a signed contract. I sent them the contract via e-mail.

We met at their home (a 45 minute drive for me).

Anyway, Carolyn's idea of a fax or e-mail should take care of the contract. I would also consider looking into one of the on-line planning systems. DJEP is a sponsor here and offers a very nice package.

In your case, these folks are making it difficult. Go back to plan A and refund the retainer and send them packing. Not worth the time.

Puma,

It’s safe to say that none of us likes flaky clients but most of us find that we have to deal with them.

Ask yourself this: Is the $550 you may receive at the end of this road worth the aggravation you have experienced so far plus all else that is likely awaiting you, not the least of which is providing your $900 package for just 60% of your regular fee?

Based on what you have explained so far, I would cut this client loose, and if need be, enjoy a Saturday night off, but that’s me and I have a low PITA tolerance.

I’m certainly not advising you to do the same because only you know your personal situation and your personal PITA tolerance.

Best wishes.

I also wouldnt care what happens as if there is no SOLID Contract then sorry no job...

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Well, today is the wedding. I have to leave in about 2 hours. I have about 1 hour travel time and I am alotting myself 2 hours for set-up. Its a 4 hour event and I am thinking about 45 minutes tear down and 1 hour travel back home. Almost a nine hour day. Not too bad really.

I am planning on going and giving them the best I have and maybe I can snag a referral. Even though this has been a rough wedding up to now I still hope for the best and plan on giving them the same treatment I give all my clients.

I will let y'all know how it went when I get back.

-Puma-

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good luck!!

Not sure if it'll help, but here is how I do business:

If YOU are paying me, and absolutely feel the need to meet me beforehand,I will pick up the tab, and either meet you at your home, or the venue (venue preferred).

If *I* am paying you, you need to come to me (I honor above).


Why people like to meet at restaurants, or coffee shops, is beyond me. You are telling them you will make the most important night of their lives, the best!

You better know their life then, and either meet them at home, or at the venue, where both parties can brainstorm.


It should be in DJ101, that you meet them at the venue!

Feel free to credit me :)

Wow! I'm actually about to disagree with you on something for the first time.

I'll agree that you should never meet at a pub, etc. However, if everyone that "I was going to pay" for something had to come to me, I would never have to leave the house. The reality is that if I want something, I have to go and get it.

If someone has an interest in my services, they can come and shop me. Did they make the venue, the caterer, or photographer come to them? No. The only time I go out to the venue for a meeting is when we need to physically be there for detailing. I'm not a brush salesman. You have to come see me. I'll put out some coffee & cookies, set up my gear and we'll have a nice chat.

However, if everyone that "I was going to pay" for something had to come to me, I would never have to leave the house.

Exactly how I work :)

The reality is that if I want something, I have to go and get it.


I have it delivered -- even my groceries, beer and dog food :)

Don't take me wrong, as I am far from "uppity" -- but I am busy. It costs me more to lock up the farm, and walk out the door, then it does to have things brought to me. It literally takes me a couple hours to "lock up", just to go out.


Back on topic:

The way I see it, is if I am selling you a product or service, the onus is upon me to meet your needs. And, vice versa...


Give ya an example:

We've been dealing with insurance agencies for property insurance. The agent calls me and has some concerns, and says "Come on down to the office, and we can discuss it.".

Whoa Nelly!
Dude, I'm paying you good money, drag your sorry ass down here!

If he was buying, I would go to him.

Give ya an example:

We've been dealing with insurance agencies for property insurance. The agent calls me and has some concerns, and says "Come on down to the office, and we can discuss it.".

Whoa Nelly!
Dude, I'm paying you good money, drag your sorry ass down here!

If he was buying, I would go to him.

But, your example is not in the same category. It's apples and oranges. The insurance company is most likely going to have to send an agent out to the farm at some point. Delivery services are well...just that.

If you were planning a wedding, you would have to leave the farm. If you didn't, you would never truly know what you're getting. I just feel that as the provider, my time is no less valuable than that of the purchaser.

I haven't had a couple refuse or complain about coming to me for the 18 years I've been in business. That means I don't have to sweat the ones that will down the line. They will just miss out on a great deal and an even better value.

Oh well, we're both right when you get down to it. Different strokes and all.
Neither one of us is out of business.

Just thought it would be fun to rib ya' a little. :sqwink:

I totally enjoy going to meet the client.

Especially on their turf. ( their home )

It really gives me a good idea of who they are by examining many things to help determine their personality.

Art? Furniture? Family pictures around? Pets? General decor around? Cleanliness?

Any help I can get from them and their personality helps me better serve the client and provide the proper entertainment for their event.

Example...

Grooms apartment rebel flag proudly displayed above the fireplace in the Chicago area.
Loves country music, but proudly brags about the boom in his car.
Talks with all the typical slang of the Chicago area.
Takes me to the home of the parents (hers) where the wedding is to be held.
Classy million dollar (easily) spread in secluded area.
New groundskeeping going in.
New remodeling going in for wedding.
New deck being put in for wedding.
(step-Father of bride) proudly show a 63 corvette in garage.
Mother of bride recently married this guy. (so he's the step dad).
Doesn't want to do a mother son dance cause she's a ***** but will do one anyway.

What can be learned about this wedding, couple, and party you will be in charge of???
(there's more, but you get the picture...)

No phone conversation, or meeting on my turf would have let me learn like this 2 hours did.

If you were planning a wedding, you would have to leave the farm.

Nah, it'd be held here :)


The insurance company is most likely going to have to send an agent out to the farm at some point.

She's buried next to Hoffa :sqwink:


Oh well, we're both right when you get down to it.

Nah, I'm from New York -- you are from Boston.

We all know who is right :sqlaugh: :sqwink:

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Well, I did something I have never done before. I mis-cued the first dance song. I had to play it from cd with a non cd based system due to this being poorly planned. Anyhow this was a computer based system and I miscued the cd track to the wrong number. I didnt have a pair of headphones to hear the song cued cuz it isnt part of this smaller system. I felt bad, but it only took 3 seconds to recue the right song.

After that I gave them a great reception, photo montage went very well. The dances went well. The anniversary dance was great. And the final dance went great with the big circle and a final hug at the end.

It started out bad but kept going better all the way through. The personality of this couple was very flaky. All the participation dances were on the dont play list. After I announced that the rest of the evening would be for requested songs I only had 1 person come request a song. Nobody requested anything else all night.

The bride and groom looked zoned out and didnt really talk to anyone. They had no bridal party cuz they said they had no friends. Kinda a weird vibe overall, but I gave them a good reception with all things considered. After the reception they just left without thanking anyone for coming or even saying a word to any of the vendors.

I found something really interesting. I talked to the photographers and they were paid to stay in a hotel for the night before the event and paid to travel from out of town. They paid for 2 photographers and bought a very expensive package. These photographers were top notch, carrying remote strobe flashes the whole nine. But when they hired the original dj they gave him some sob story to why they couldnt pay him very much money and he agreed to this pretty big package for $550. Just kinda funny.



I learned a lesson , I wont take anymore hand me down gigs.

-Puma-

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Well, I did something I have never done before. I mis-cued the first dance song. I had to play it from cd with a non cd based system due to this being poorly planned. Anyhow this was a computer based system and I miscued the cd track to the wrong number. I didnt have a pair of headphones to hear the song cued cuz it isnt part of this smaller system. I felt bad, but it only took 3 seconds to recue the right song.

After that I gave them a great reception, photo montage went very well. The dances went well. The anniversary dance was great. And the final dance went great with the big circle and a final hug at the end.

It started out bad but kept going better all the way through. The personality of this couple was very flaky. All the participation dances were on the dont play list. After I announced that the rest of the evening would be for requested songs I only had 1 person come request a song. Nobody requested anything else all night.

The bride and groom looked zoned out and didnt really talk to anyone. They had no bridal party cuz they said they had no friends. Kinda a weird vibe overall, but I gave them a good reception with all things considered. After the reception they just left without thanking anyone for coming or even saying a word to any of the vendors.

I found something really interesting. I talked to the photographers and they were paid to stay in a hotel for the night before the event and paid to travel from out of town. They paid for 2 photographers and bought a very expensive package. These photographers were top notch, carrying remote strobe flashes the whole nine. But when they hired the original dj they gave him some sob story to why they couldnt pay him very much money and he agreed to this pretty big package for $550. Just kinda funny.



I learned a lesson , I wont take anymore hand me down gigs.

-Puma-

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You survived the event.
You gave it your best.
You learned important lessons from the event.

IMO. Great job!

Agreed with Dan. Great show. :)

Don't lose any sleep over the little things. You got paid. That's what matters.