School & Teen Events Some Sugguestions Please: Dance for 300 High School Cheerleaders

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Djcarolina said:
Actually I was placed there by the school. There were 7 other exits in the building that were completely unobstructed and all were double doors. Additionally there was a good 6 feet of space behind my system. If there was in fact a safety hazard, exiting the building would have been extremely easy especially since there were 4 other exits on the same glass wall I was on.
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This is only your opinion. There is a reason why doors have lighted exit signs and why there are so many. You cannot under any circumstance block a fire exit. There must be a clear and direct path to the exit. Because the school put you there does not mean you cannot be held liable for someone getting hurt trying to exit through that door. Be very careful listening to such people.

I've been teaching fire safety for over 20 years now. I teach by NFPA standards and common sense. Think of this, picture the lights going out and everything black. The only thing you can see is a lighted exit sign. You head directly toward it only to trip into a light stand, speaker, etc. In the mass confusion you head for the first exit sign you see but you can't get out because you just tripped over equpiment. It's to dark to know you might have gone around it. People are taught to follow the lighted exit signs that's why there cannot be any obstructions in the direct path to that sign/door/exit.

Also, it is not your judgment to determine whether there are enough exits in the room. The exits are all there for a reason and no one is given the choice to block the ones they see fit. Sorry but that's just the facts and the law. What you choose to do with those facts as a professional is up to you. What I would suggest is to ask your insurance liability company if it's OK to block a fire exit with your equipment just because the school or venue says so. After all they are the ones who will be protecting you when someone gets hurt or dies.

I'm just trying to help you here, not lecture you. Take this as a learning experience. What you do with it is up to you. I speak from experience, fact, and the law. Maybe this will help.

Lookup section 10.17 and go to places of assembly. Although this is for the State of Massachusetts I doubt very much that your state will be different. Many of these codes are written from NFPA standards as well as others.
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/dfs/osfm/cmr/cmr_secured/527010.pdf
 
Ron Auger said:
This is only your opinion. There is a reason why doors have lighted exit signs and why there are so many. You cannot under any circumstance block a fire exit. There must be a clear and direct path to the exit. Because the school put you there does not mean you cannot be held liable for someone getting hurt trying to exit through that door. Be very careful listening to such people.

I've been teaching fire safety for over 20 years now. I teach by NFPA standards and common sense. Think of this, picture the lights going out and everything black. The only thing you can see is a lighted exit sign. You head directly toward it only to trip into a light stand, speaker, etc. In the mass confusion you head for the first exit sign you see but you can't get out because you just tripped over equpiment. It's to dark to know you might have gone around it. People are taught to follow the lighted exit signs that's why there cannot be any obstructions in the direct path to that sign/door/exit.

Also, it is not your judgment to determine whether there are enough exits in the room. The exits are all there for a reason and no one is given the choice to block the ones they see fit. Sorry but that's just the facts and the law. What you choose to do with those facts as a professional is up to you. What I would suggest is to ask your insurance liability company if it's OK to block a fire exit with your equipment just because the school or venue says so. After all they are the ones who will be protecting you when someone gets hurt or dies.

I'm just trying to help you here, not lecture you. Take this as a learning experience. What you do with it is up to you. I speak from experience, fact, and the law. Maybe this will help.

Lookup section 10.17 and go to places of assembly. Although this is for the State of Massachusetts I doubt very much that your state will be different. Many of these codes are written from NFPA standards as well as others.
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/dfs/osfm/cmr/cmr_secured/527010.pdf
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Eye opening and realistic when you put it in perspective. Good point!

Though i must take a little opportunity to mention that they'd see the stands since all my stands have glow in the dark tape around the legs.
 
Let me show you somethings. This video is shot in real time. In the beginning of the video, tell me if the people 2,3,4,or 5 rows deep would notice any light stand. All they see if the person they are pushing in front of them. Also notice the bodies that are jammed up in the front double doors. The bodies are stacked so high they can't pull them out. There are many more bodies lying behind them.

100 people died in this fire in a matter of minutes. Sorry but you don't get to make those decisions of who might see what. The fire safety laws are plain and simple. When you choose to ignore them this is a possible outcome. I don't know about you but I do not every wish to be a part of it. I'm sure feel bad for the first arriving units who rolled up on this one. There were only a few time in my career when I said "Oh fu@#". This would have been one of them.

YouTube - The Station nightclub fire

Sorry to go off on my safety rants but I feel it extremely important that one has all the facts.
 
I too cringe watching but if I were one of them I would have mowed down Carolinas system to get to that visibible exit sign. He did mention there was a clear path to it.
 
Jon Tuck said:
I too cringe watching but if I were one of them I would have mowed down Carolinas system to get to that visibible exit sign. He did mention there was a clear path to it.
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No Jon, he said there was room behind it. Look at the picture as if you were standing in front of the door. Do you see a clear path. Close your eyes and head toward it. First thing you'll do is trip and fall. Next the other 50 or so people behind you will now fall on top of you because they can't see. All they see is a person in front of them. People now stampede, pushing and shoving.

Look, it's simple really. There is no debate on the subject. You don't get to think of what you can or might do because the other hundreds of people haven't. It's a clear straight direct path to the exit. In MA I believe the isle needs to be 44" wide. Believe it or not, even members of your local fire department might let you get away with it. That doesn't change the law and why it's there. The fire inspector of Warwick RI is being sues because he inspected the Station Night Club and didn't say anything about the foam they were using for sound dampening. It was the foam that ignited so easily and spread the fire so quickly. The owners of the club are in jail. The band Great White's manager is in jail. Everyone who had anything to do with that club is being sued. 100 people are dead. Why? because everyone thought. They thought that everyone could get out of the front door. They thought that nothing would happen to them. They thought they were OK because they were inspected. They thought but no one acted in accordance with the law.
 
Ok, well there is no need for additional argument. I was wrong. I should have set up somewhere else in the interest of crowd safety.

You'll also note that in the case of the station nightclub fire, the building was not up to code and the fire supression system was not sufficient for the building it was installed in.
 
Djcarolina said:
Ok, well there is no need for additional argument. I was wrong. I should have set up somewhere else in the interest of crowd safety.

You'll also note that in the case of the station nightclub fire, the building was not up to code and the fire suppression system was not sufficient for the building it was installed in.
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Carolina, it's not about proving you wrong, it's about providing you with accurate information so you can make an informed decision. What you choose to do with that information is up to you as a professional. To took great care about gaining the right music for a successful party. Being a professional doesn't stop there. We do have other responsibilities. Allowing others to make those decisions for you is what's wrong.

As for the Station there was no suppression system. You didn't see any suppression happening during the first 5 mins. Their building didn't require sprinklers at the time. Because of that incident the State of Massachusetts has made mandatory the installation of sprinklers in clubs that hold more than 50 people. However if they had enough sufficient exits most if not all of those victims would have lived. I've heard reports that upon noticing the problem, the bouncers were directing people out the front door. And you see how well that worked out. There were I believe two other exits in the rear but not many knew they were there. Poor @$$ planning and the assumption that "nothings going to happen to us" mentality is what killed those people.

You also need to look past just the fire thing. If for any reason people need to exit quickly they need a clear and unobstructed path to every exit. There is a reason why the exits are places where they are and why so many. If you have 300 kids in the area they all can't go out a few doors. If you have 50 in front of you they would be expected to exit directly out that door. Believe me, I've taken many of seminars and training classes on the nature of people and how they react under an escape situation. Let me tell you, they don't react how you think they might. Jon's example of looking down and seeing the tape on your tripods is something that just won't happen.

Peoples human nature is to push and shove when they have but one exit or way out. They won't stop, but they will continue to the exit they have in sight regardless of who's in their way. Just look at Black Friday when the idiots all pushed into a Walmart when the doors opened at 5am. The security guard who opened the doors was trampled to death. And for what, a discounted TV or Xbox? Take that incident in reverse when a kid enters the dance with a gun or a fight breaks out. How fast do you think those kids are going to scramble for those doors. How about a simple power outage. The only lights what should work are the exit signs.

I was doing a dance in my high school cafe a few months back. The kids just started coming in. It was dark outside. A few streets up a transformer blew on one of the poles knocking out all power in the area. Not one light was working in the area of the Cafe. No emergency lights, no exit lights, nothing. I had to use my big mouth to help exit the kids safely outside. First call was to my wife who helps create the emergency plans for our community. There's suppose to be a backup generator in that area she said. Guess what, it wasn't working. Next call was to the Fire Chief. But that still doesn't help with the immediate situation.

Sorry to be so long winded but think of Murphy's Law. I've seen the outcome to many times from Murphy. You are a caring DJ who prides himself in his work. You wouldn't be here if you didn't. I just hope I was able to give you something to think about.
 
Again valid points. I'll also add that I always have 4 Maglites around me. One lives in my tool case, 2 small ones in my rack drawer and another large one that is inside the main rack.
 
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