On this first gig, I used the high-pass directly off the sub, to feed the tops. I'm hoping to just eliminate the need for my rack-mounted crossover.
The cheapskate (me) bought a sub
- Thread starter rickryan.com
- Start date
On this first gig, I used the high-pass directly off the sub, to feed the tops. I'm hoping to just eliminate the need for my rack-mounted crossover.
Rick thats why it was a tough road for ya. The Sub setting is set for something that might be able to keep up in a semi balanced manor. The additional availability with a proper crossover and perhaps a full EQ would allow you a better balance and tuned sound in this configuration.
Wood Floors and beams are great for Bass. You may be actually getting resonance not necessarily throw.
nail, meet head.
I've got 2 and intend to try it out on those. One is a country club. Large, square room with carpet and a wood dance floor in the middle. The other is a concrete patio that I play at pretty regular.
As for matching up, I'm gonna let it ride a while on going without an external cross-over (even though I have one in my rack already). It did sound very good so no need to complicate it, just yet. At this point, if gigs keep coming in, I'd like to get a 2nd sub and maybe a pair of EV 12s by Spring.
good luck with running the tops harder than they might like. I hope they make it until you get the 12's. Hooking up or complicating with proper crossover adjustments might save some grief. Remember your home made powered?
If I'm not mistaken, that sub crosses at 100hz (not sweep-able). Where would you think it needs to be set? I had the speakers at about +2db and watched them closely, the entire night and never once saw the first limit light on the tops and they had more than enough output. The sub has a 3-stage protection; "limit", "VCP" (voice coil protect), then "protect". When I had it at 0db (12 o'clock), it hit VCP a couple of times. After backing it -3db, it still hit limit every now and then but not often and if a track was mixed kick-heavy, I could just roll off some bottom end.
You have a better suggestion? I'm all ears.
Oh yea, I forgot. I do have a 3rd gig, an outdoor elementary school thing, Friday morning. This weekend should give me a good test run in a pretty varied set of environments. I just went by and unloaded the bose from the trailer this morning. Oh yea, and the Zs fit perfectly on top of the 760. Just put a piece of foam between and bungee it down. Rolls right into the trailer, no lifting.
What he means is by using a crossover you are able to send specific frequencies to the tops and to the subs..... even if you are already aware of this.... sub frequencies take more amp power to produce.... sending them to the tops is a waste and likely makeing them work harder.... which is why sending just Mid/Highs to the tops is better than sending a full range signal... your tops wont have to work as hard and you'll get more out of them before clipping.
I ran my crossover at approx.. 90hz and control the overall output to each amp from the crossover rather than controlling the gain on the amp.... allowing me even further control over the system as a whole.
Don't discount the use of a crossover just because it sounds good..... when it could sound even better.
Am I not communicating this correctly? Of course, I'm using a crossover (the one built-in on the 760). Sorry if I haven't been clear on this.
RickRyan,
A Built In Crossover is a "Passive" Crossover! I believe he is referring to an External Electronic Crossover, which is also called an "Active" Crossover.
You have more control over amps and speakers sound with an Active Crossover. :triwink:
Um, bro, it's an active sub and active tops. Pretty we're not talking about a passive crossover. I'm sending full-range signal from the mixer to the sub, then taking the hi output up to the tops (100hz and up only).
Hey Rick,
I may be off my rocker, but I've been told, and I believe to be true, that anytime you send a full range signal to a powered speaker and rely on its internal crossover to do the signal splitting, you are decreasing that speakers efficiency. You are asking it to do more 'work'. Plus, the sound just seems a little more 'muddy' overall than when you use and external crossover. YMMV. Just a helpful tip from someone who does NOT know it all.
I may be off my rocker, but I've been told, and I believe to be true, that anytime you send a full range signal to a powered speaker and rely on its internal crossover to do the signal splitting, you are decreasing that speakers efficiency. You are asking it to do more 'work'. Plus, the sound just seems a little more 'muddy' overall than when you use and external crossover. YMMV. Just a helpful tip from someone who does NOT know it all.
Not because it is an active Speaker does that make it's Internal Crossover Active. Actually the verbage Active Speaker is misleading. It should be Powered Speaker or Passive Speaker.
An Active Crossover is usually an external unit that you can use to control the frequencies and gains to the amp while it is in use. Hence the name Active.
Hey Rick,
I may be off my rocker, but I've been told, and I believe to be true, that anytime you send a full range signal to a powered speaker and rely on its internal crossover to do the signal splitting, you are decreasing that speakers efficiency. You are asking it to do more 'work'. Plus, the sound just seems a little more 'muddy' overall than when you use and external crossover. YMMV. Just a helpful tip from someone who does NOT know it all.
Wes/Houston....hmm, the plot thickens. I always thought of a passive crossover as what you'd find in a 2 or 3-way, non-powered speaker. You pass a full-range, powered signal to it, it separates out the frequencies and sends those to the driver(s).
I WAS pretty certain that this EV760 has an electronic crossover built-in. You send full-range, line-level signal to the input, it splits the frequencies and sends 100hz and below to its internal amp/speaker. It then sends only 100hz and above to the line-level output, which then gets passed to the tops. Are you guys trying to tell me an external crossover is better than the one built into the 760?
I do have an external EV crossover that I've been using up to this point but it seemed a bit silly to introduce a link into the chain that simply wasn't needed.
I think it's time for the experts from NLFX or EV to comment on use of a external crossover with said products.
Some answers above in Red.
First and foremost lets look at Manufacturers designs. Lets say EV Designed a Powered speaker or Non Powered Speaker to operate at a certain set or selection of settings. Then when used as instructed, the output sound will be exactly as stated in the specs.
However, when you take into consideration the acoustics of the room, those settings may need tweaking. this can be accomplished in several ways..everything from a simple 3 Band EQ on a DJ Mixer to a combination of more complicated configurations of Graphic/Parametric Equilization, Compressors, Expanders and Limiters.
In my opinion an Active External Electronic Crossover will give you more control over final frequencies BEFORE the amp rather than tailoring it after the amp's output. Passives come into play usually after the amp's output.
This is why a TRUE three-way (3 amps) or four-way system (4 Amps) using an Electronic Crossover, with NO passive Crossovers in the cabinets or by-passed will sound much better than a pre set 3-way or 4-way system. There are many Speaker boxes that give you the option of bypassing their internal crossovers so the components can be Bi-Amped or Tri-Amped.
Steve LeBlanc
DJ Extraordinaire
I use an external active crossover with my active (powered) EV SB2A's and my active(powered) RCF310A's...it's a dbx233XL
When I was running the 310A's with my Active (powered) RCF 705AS, I did not use an external active crossover. The sub has an internal crossover with settings of 80, 100 and 120 hz....I run from the mixer to the subs, then to the tops...
If I use the sub now, I use the DBX simpoly running to the tops and sub separately.
From the SBA 760 manual
"Mid-High Outputs L/R
The input signal is split via the integrated electronic crossover.
Low-frequency signals are routed to the internal
power amplifier of the SbA760 while high-frequency signals
are present at the Mid-High outputs for further distribution
to external power amps or active mid-high range cabinets"
I don't see anywhere in the manual wherein it indicates that the crossover point is 100hz
When I was running the 310A's with my Active (powered) RCF 705AS, I did not use an external active crossover. The sub has an internal crossover with settings of 80, 100 and 120 hz....I run from the mixer to the subs, then to the tops...
If I use the sub now, I use the DBX simpoly running to the tops and sub separately.
From the SBA 760 manual
"Mid-High Outputs L/R
The input signal is split via the integrated electronic crossover.
Low-frequency signals are routed to the internal
power amplifier of the SbA760 while high-frequency signals
are present at the Mid-High outputs for further distribution
to external power amps or active mid-high range cabinets"
I don't see anywhere in the manual wherein it indicates that the crossover point is 100hz
Page 14 of the user manual:
It is odd they didn't list the crossover frequency up in the section you quoted (the text description).
Yea but see, you're a sound expert that (perhaps) can really tweak a system out......AND.....you actually enjoy doing that kind of thing.
Me, I'm a hack sound engineer that wants it simple and easy to hook-up. If there's even a speck of real-world difference between an external crossover and the built-in on this 760, I'd be shocked. I might just have to try it for the heck of it though, as you've got my curiosity up.
THANKS FOR GIVING ME SOMETHING ELSE TO WORRY ABOUT ON GIGS!!! :triwink: :triwink:
Just passing along what I learnt. My First system was a Three way, this is how I started back in 1978. I am NOT an expert because I am still learning.:triwink::triwink: