Advertising ROI and knot vs ??

[IceBurghDJ]

it's time to plan my marketing for next year. For the photography I've always budgeted 8% of sales and never spend it all. Figure I'm leaving business out there for the competition.

No idea what percentage one should spend on marketing in the DJ biz.

The knot called..never advertised with them. Some folks swear by them and swear at them - so I take that to mean it depends on your market, your pricing, website, etc, etc.

So they're offering 'featured' status (front page I guess) and a 'storefront' w/ unlimited pics/videos. For DJ they're wanting $1850/year. (25% off regular pricing)

I know some here use the Knot..is it worth it? What kind of ROI are you getting (booked sales vs cost of it). Do you get better bookings from there compared to other sources?

I"m thinking of doing a different name and website for the knot, if I go that way, and higher pricing - and push toward the city more since the knot here covers a 'metro' area of 7 counties.

 

[rickryan.com]

I'm using TK for photo advertising. They're producing a lot more, and I consider better quality leads. I'm paying $152 per month. I would've expected DJ to be less. I'm still in the process of tweaking FB ads and my gut tells me that's going to be a lot more effective solution than either WW or TK.

 

[DJ Ricky B]

If you advertise at 1850 a year, you will realize you will have to charge more per event. Personally, I think $1850 is way too high. I dunno about the KNOT, but with Wedding Wire it was good for 1 to 2 bookings a year directly from that source of advertising.

Personally, I think $1850 a year is too high for a DJ ad listing on a directory. Spend $1850 in google adwords and you would likely have a better roi.

 

[IceBurghDJ]

The rates are:

DJ: Standard $150/mo and Featured $205/mo
Photog: $185/mo Standard and Featured $295/mo
Less teh 25% discount for featured (or 20% off standard)
so DJ works out to $152/mo and a few pennies.

I've been using thumbtack for DJ marketing...looks like 5 gigs booked, 2 waiting yet, $385 spent..but I also got a sports league (football) that got me a free gig for them, oh, and $6000 in football picture sales.

So ignoring the wasted time responding, it's working out to a cost of $77/gig...avg gig $400 (for the year). So nearly 20%. Too high IMO. I'm not tracking it close enough to tell you exactly (and i'm ignoring the football pics).

so if that same ratio worked on the knot it would have to generate 10k in gigs...if I can get $1000 a wedding (possible in the city market) i'd need 10 weddings...
I guess the bigger question is will I have 10 dates open...or will I be turning away a lot of work?
Or is there a cheaper way to get the weddings?

I am doing a bridal show and am trying to get back into one (as a dj, not a photog), it's $300 I think. Cost of a gig there may be $50-60 (based on past booking experience in a good year...double that in a bad year, photography speaking).

I can spend on FB (not seen it do anything for the photography biz) or adwords...or ??

 

[majorsoundsmusic]

I know, old post. But, I have found that the knot is not mobile friendly. I can't respond to inquiries from there mobile site.

To me, ease of use is a big deal.


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[IceBurghDJ]

update..
show was $300 plus door prize plus table prize, so $345 plus my ass't wages.
Been less than a week and booked, at a show discount, $2700 in bookings with another $1000 not committed yet. And that's before any email follow up (just got the list yesterday).
I'd like the marketing cost to be under 10% and it looks like it will be.

 

[djmagicmoments]

I have used the knot for about 5 years and it works VERY well for me. It's ALL about the reviews. If you have great reviews, you get great leads.

We book between 15-20 weddings a year from leads generated from our knot advertising.

Give it a try!

 

[IceBurghDJ]

Your pricepoint may make that pay. I was quoted around $200/month - so $2400 a year and that's not a prime listing...if I want to keep advertising to 10% of sales then I'd have to book $25,000 in business. I'm working at getting my average ticket above $1k/wedding, but currently I'd probably have to get 30-35 gigs to make that ROI work - and I'm getting that without spending $2400 to do it.

 

[majorsoundsmusic]

I feel your pain. For the first time, 3 of my 4 packages are at 1k and above.

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[Jeff Romard]

Before I would go anywhere near the Knot or WW I would try targeted Facebook ads and maybe Google ads. Iceburgh has the right idea do local advertising. Bridal shows are great depending on your market because you will get some gigs out of it and you will also get seen by the people that book events locally

 

[rickryan.com]

I'll have to chime in with Jeff's suggestion for FB ads. Magnitudes more targeted and you can stop/start them on a dime. I ran WW ads for years and the best I can say is they probably paid for themselves. They certainly were not profitable. I'm still running a $152/mth slot on TK. The leads are better quality and it seems to be a little better ROI that WW but not stellar. If you go either WW or TK, the key to getting anything out of those is having glowing reviews on their system. If you don't have at least a dozen, you aren't even in the ballgame.

 

[DJ Ricky B]

My Best ROI is from Gig Masters. That is ever since 2010.

My second best ROI has come from Google Adwords. Google Adwords are expensive though. Also, there is a long learning curve to adwords. It took me a while to figure out how to optimize my adwords campaigns to make them efficient, and get on to the top 3 ads during searches. I finally have a position of 1.5 which basically means I show up as the very first ad most of the time. ...I show up in the third spot for some key words, but most key words I pop up as Number 1 above Thumb Tack and a few other DJ companies. Thumb tack seems to pop up in #2 position with their "Top 20 DJs in Baltimore" and "595 Wedding DJs" ad campaigns.

I started running my current campaign on January 3rd. I have spent $568 on clicks since then. I have booked 1, and have had 5 phone calls, and 8 web site inquiries since I started the current campaign.

I spent a HUGE amount on google adwords last year, and I can say the bookings I obtained paid for the ad, but I didn't turn a profit from it. I do believe a lot of other DJs and wanna be DJs do searches and click on the ad a lot though causing me to lose money on clicks. ...I have had some people click on the ad twice, and even 3 times which is irritating.

As far as Gig Masters...I have booked 5 events since the beginning of the year. So far $59 on membership, and the 5% booking fee for each booking.

I did WeddingWire for 3 years paid...I booked 4 weddings out of the ad in 3 years. Not worth the heft costs of a paid ad there. I have not used the Knot, and won't bother with them at this point. However, an Agent that books me from time to time has booked me on a wedding where the client came from the Knot.

 

[rickryan.com]

I started running my current campaign on January 3rd. I have spent $568 on clicks since then. I have booked 1, and have had 5 phone calls, and 8 web site inquiries since I started the current campaign.

Not busting your chops here but wanted to ask. So 1 booking from $568 spent is a good ROI?

 

[DJ Ricky B]

Not busting your chops here but wanted to ask. So 1 booking from $568 spent is a good ROI?

No not at all, but advertising isn't cheap these days. My cost per click on goggle is average $3.91 per click. I often get 5 to 9 clicks per day on average.

I have spent rughly $600 or close to it by the time today ends on clicks. I have booked 1 $1,150 wedding from it. The advertisement has been running for about 36 days so far this time around.

Also, the bookings come in waves.

In comparison with Wedding Wire. Each year my paid advertisement on wedding wire was $1,100. Each year yielded one wedding booking from the ad, and one wedding came from a wedding wire lead, so I give that booking credit to the advertisement enough though, not really directly from the ad. So 4 weddings booked from WW advertisement and I spent like $3,300 on the ad.

Some may say the Wedding Wire booking has "Branding Value" ...But I kind of see that as rubbish. I want direct results from paid advertising.


I am doing my business expense report today getting ready for my meeting with my CPA tomorrow night for taxes. My actual money spent on Google Adwords in 2015 was roughly $3,700. I won't spent that much this year. I ran the ad too long, having kept it running January thru Oct. 22nd. This year I am stopping my campaign in mid March, and I might run it in mid August through end of September to book a few holiday parties in December. Last year I noticed the summer bookings that came in through Google Adwords were low end party clients, and I had a few Holiday parties book in September. While I did have a few party bookings over the summer, June, July, and October were dead months with a lot of wasted money on clicks in comparison to what I was spending on the advertising during those months. I didn't book any weddings due to Google Ad after May last year, and April seemed to be a slow month as well. I will probably not run the ad at all in April this year.

...It's a gamble basically. ...On one end my biggest multi op competitor went out of business last June. He use to have the top spot on google. I now have that spot. However, I am also realizing that most prospects that use google prefer to use sites where they can get multiple quotes from multiple vendors such as Gig Masters, and Thumb tack. ...I think those entities are skewing the results off of google.

Why contact a single vendor at a time when doing your online search when you can just sit back and receive a bunch of quotes from multiple DJs from a single web site?

So I wouldn't say the ROI is GREAT from Google Adwords, but it's better than Wedding Wire and other online entities I have used.

 

[rickryan.com]

In comparison with Wedding Wire. Each year my paid advertisement on wedding wire was $1,100. Each year yielded one wedding booking from the ad, and one wedding came from a wedding wire lead, so I give that booking credit to the advertisement enough though, not really directly from the ad. So 4 weddings booked from WW advertisement and I spent like $3,300 on the ad.

Pretty much exactly the same results as I saw with them. I dropped them last month and last week a "sales supervisor" called to see if she could talk me into renewing. She starts down her typical WW pitch of "If you just book 1 event from WW, you've paid for the ad." She didn't quite get through the entire line before I interrupted, "Wait a minute. I keep hearing you guys parrot that 'pay for it' line and I want to ask you a question. What good does it do me if your advertising just manages to pay for itself? You've gained nothing for me and I'm working a free gig (or three), just to get money to give to you. If your advertising can't show me how you're going to make me a profit, then why should I use you? I'm not trying to disrespect you but that's really a dumb pitch you guys keep using." She paused for a minute then told me, "You know, I can see what you're saying. I'm going to go back to my managers and talk about this some more." I know the phone call wasn't particularly pleasant for her, but I think she did appreciate the candor.

 

[DJ Ricky B]

Here is a current example of how the ad is costing me money even though it did attract a prospect.

Yesterday I had the Sales Direct of a Hotel in Ocean City give me a call. Ocean City, MD is a FAR drive from where I am at. I will drive out there if I can book a nice paying wedding or event though.

This sales director doesn't have a DJ for their Valentines Day Party in the Bar of their hotel for Saturday night. They want a Karaoke DJ. The guy they have used in the past is booked, and she contacted some local DJs who are all "booked".

I asked her what her budget it. They want to pay $150 for 4 hours. I declined and told her I am currently open, but due to the long drive out there, I would ask for $800, and would need a hotel room provided for the night. LOL.

Needless to say, she did say she could see if the hotel would give me a room for the night since she does need to book a DJ, but $150 is the hotel's budget, and she can't go over that.

She had clicked on my ad, and called. Oh well. This is a case of a hotel that is bein cheap, and doesn't want to budget accordingly for a DJ. ...Perhaps my $800 is asking a lot for that particular market, BUT I'm not booking a party 145 miles away for much less than $800, and certainly not booking anything for a lousy $150.

 

[rickryan.com]

Here is a current example of how the ad is costing me money even though it did attract a prospect.

Yesterday I had the Sales Direct of a Hotel in Ocean City give me a call. Ocean City, MD is a FAR drive from where I am at. I will drive out there if I can book a nice paying wedding or event though.

This sales director doesn't have a DJ for their Valentines Day Party in the Bar of their hotel for Saturday night. They want a Karaoke DJ. The guy they have used in the past is booked, and she contacted some local DJs who are all "booked".

I asked her what her budget it. They want to pay $150 for 4 hours. I declined and told her I am currently open, but due to the long drive out there, I would ask for $800, and would need a hotel room provided for the night. LOL.

Needless to say, she did say she could see if the hotel would give me a room for the night since she does need to book a DJ, but $150 is the hotel's budget, and she can't go over that.

She had clicked on my ad, and called. Oh well. This is a case of a hotel that is bein cheap, and doesn't want to budget accordingly for a DJ. ...Perhaps my $800 is asking a lot for that particular market, BUT I'm not booking a party 145 miles away for much less than $800, and certainly not booking anything for a lousy $150.

I'd say you handled it very well. You didn't take offense and you stuck to your price. While she couldn't book you for this event, it's quite likely that she now equates you with a quality vendor, which means she'll remember you the next time she's working on a higher-end event. Good job not just taking offense and blowing her off.

Back on the wedding sites, while I can't remember exactly how many bookings I've gotten off TK versus WW, I can tell you we have several from TK and the prospects are noticeably better. It's not screaming profitable but, at least at this point, I consider TK a worthwhile investment.

 

[DJ Ricky B]

Pretty much exactly the same results as I saw with them. I dropped them last month and last week a "sales supervisor" called to see if she could talk me into renewing. She starts down her typical WW pitch of "If you just book 1 event from WW, you've paid for the ad." She didn't quite get through the entire line before I interrupted, "Wait a minute. I keep hearing you guys parrot that 'pay for it' line and I want to ask you a question. What good does it do me if your advertising just manages to pay for itself? You've gained nothing for me and I'm working a free gig (or three), just to get money to give to you. If your advertising can't show me how you're going to make me a profit, then why should I use you? I'm not trying to disrespect you but that's really a dumb pitch you guys keep using." She paused for a minute then told me, "You know, I can see what you're saying. I'm going to go back to my managers and talk about this some more." I know the phone call wasn't particularly pleasant for her, but I think she did appreciate the candor.

That is the most BS Line they always use. It's also a lack of knowledge when it comes to a business owner's perception of ROI who believes "If you just book 1 event, it pays for the ad". I have seen vendors use that line in the forum...many use the same line when they think about Bridal Shows. It's not true at all.

If you pay $1,000 for a bridal show, and all you could muster is a single $1,000 booking from the show. You did the show for Free, and you actually lost money because of the expenses to get to the show, the gig, and any material costs you took in for that show, and the booking itself. Not to mention your time.


Wedding Wire advertising is generally a farse. Some vendors might get lucky, but you are essentially paying a boat load of money to be placed in a vendor catalog with 25+ other vendors. How do you stand out, and make money in this fashion? How many of those prospects are actually clicking on store fronts and web sites seriously looking to book a DJ?

...I know I click on other DJ companies store fronts and websites from the catalog, and I am a DJ just browsing the catalog looking at the competition. I expect most DJs do the same thing. Most of those clicks that wedding wire claims to your ad is false, and highly inflated to make vendors think they are getting a lot of exposure.

I have done much better on gig masters...a platform where users enter their info, and I can submit a quote and they can at least see that quote, and get a glance of my professionalism. Booked 5 weddings through there all at $1,000 or greater since beginning of the year.

 

[rickryan.com]

One question for the gallery. I really have taking a liking to FB ads. Much more control and you're no locked into anything. If you decide a campaign isn't working you pull the plug and change it on a dime. The part that questions me is that I don't know if I'm being too passive. I see a regular stream of people who click like on either my ad image or on the page. That part is good. What I'm wondering is if I should actively contact them (private message) to see if I can get a conversation started? Don't get me wrong, I'm satisfied with the current routine but I'm just wondering if I couldn't dig up more actual leads by being proactive. Your thoughts?

 

[DJ Ricky B]

I dunno about Facebook advertising, but my google adwords campaign has exploded. Literally gone through the roof. I raised my daily budget to $39 per day on clicks, and google is telling me I need to raise it to $60 per day because of all the searching for DJs going on right now. I am supposedly losing clicks. I had 9 click throughs on Monday, and 9 yesterday, but no web site inquiries. I like the action, but if I'm not getting at least 1 inquiry for 18 click throughs in last 2 days that is concerning. I am blowing through money. Either these are brides/grooms doing research, but not actively contacting DJs, or other entities are clicking on my ad for the hell of it causing me to lose money.

I'm not raising my budget because if I do, I could blow through another $300 in the next week.

It's hard to dissect what is occurring here, and how long to keep the ad running. It's great that I have the top spot on google...Not good that I'm not converting inquiries and getting bookings right now. However, it is only February 10th, maybe the next wave of bookings is coming...