$5 million dollar coverage required now?

[Proformance]

This is how I believe it went down:

AdJA came up with the Idea of Insurance Coverage for DJs. They needed something to help make their offering more valuable to DJs. Buy into a membership, and get a big discount on DJ Insurance. Get the DJs in ADJA to talk about DJ Insurance, and how important that brides/grooms choose a DJ who has it over those that do not. ...Word of insurance for vendors get's around to Venues, and the venues who have had problems with hack DJs at events look at it as a great idea to require that brides bringing in their own DJs outside of the preferred vendor list be required to have Liability insurance in order to work there.

Look at over the years how many DJs have posted on the forums all of a sudden needing to purchase DJ Insurance because they have a gig booked, and the venue is requiring they get it in order to work there. ...Many posts!

Hotels, Hiltons, Marriott...All of these places NEVER required DJ Insurance up until around 2009...Maybe 2008, amd MOST hotels still do not require it. The Agency I work with...None of the DJs carried insurance for themselves EVER. Only the Agency had insurance because they were a brick and mortar business.

It's all a Money Scheme. Pay to Play so to speak. Some DJs may feel better that they have DJ Insurance, but it's just an illusion.

These insurance companies ain't paying out any money on any claims from a DJ Event. Go ahead and put a claim in...watch the insurance company deflect it.
You are essentially paying for a piece of paper only because of the once in a blue moon venue that requests it, and you don't want to look like a Non Pro, or you don't want a negative opinion of you from your clients because their venue made it seem that their DJ should have insurance if they are in business.

It's all a marketing scheme. There is no mandate that states that a DJ needs to have insurance to be able to perform and be in business. There are laws requiring you to be insured in order to Drive...and rightfully so.

Businesses who are not Brick and Mortar entities simply have no real need for insurance other than the appearance of being professional.

Ask any of these bar bands who play in public spots...Majority of them don't carry insurance...Never will! And there are never any incidents where a guest is suing a DJ due to injury, and no...DJs are not burning venues down. It has never happened.

And no...Liability insurance isn't protecting your equipment in case lightning strikes the venue, and fries your sound system either.

Buying into DJ Insurance is nothing more than "Pay to Play"

LOL. No. Just, no.
The insurance requirement has been around longer than you've been alive - you've just never really qualified until recently.

Most DJs are never solicited for proof of insurance because what they do doesn't rise much beyond the risk/requirements of the average corporate guest. Using a wall outlet and a table for your gear differs very little from the liability exposure of the average guest. The biggest risk you pose is breaking the glass door on the way in with your stuff - and they can minimized that by sending you to the loading dock.

It's in the most recent 3 decades however, that DJs started doing all kinds of dangerous things - like using smoke machines, lots of lighting on over-loaded tripods and under-rated or improperly rigged trusses. They also started scratching floors, furniture, and smashing doors with their over-loaded carts. They also started injuring themselves (and others) in these accidents. As the inconvenience, accidents, and costs started to rise many insurance companies and savvy venues quit viewing the DJ as one more guest and now treat them as they do every other contractor working on the premises.

You need insurance because without it you enter that hotel like a risky driver with no auto insurance. The venues got sick of footing the bill for the damages.

 

[Proformance]

Incidentally, I just got a call from the client. She's a fireball and took my side. The venue agreed to an exception of a $2mil policy and the company is going to pay the $100 for the hotel staff to plug our equipment into a wall socket. My client told me she's taking it out of another line item. She was pretty raw that this hotel, with whom they do multiple events, is pulling this crap.

You really didn't need anyone get rough about it. Their requirements and paperwork all pertain to much larger events and staging companies. You only needed to get in touch with the venue and explain what's customary in your field with regard to their exposure. I get these things waived all the time. The fee to plug in might be fixed if the facility is staffed by union labor - as a matter of contract no substitute is allowed for their on site staff even if it just comes down to plugging something in.

 

[DJ Ricky B]

LOL. No. Just, no.
The insurance requirement has been around longer than you've been alive - you've just never really qualified until recently.

Most DJs are never solicited for proof of insurance because what they do doesn't rise much beyond the risk/requirements of the average corporate guest. Using a wall outlet and a table for your gear differs very little from the liability exposure of the average guest. The biggest risk you pose is breaking the glass door on the way in with your stuff - and they can minimized that by sending you to the loading dock.

It's in the most recent 3 decades however, that DJs started doing all kinds of dangerous things - like using smoke machines, lots of lighting on over-loaded tripods and under-rated or improperly rigged trusses. They also started scratching floors, furniture, and smashing doors with their over-loaded carts. They also started injuring themselves (and others) in these accidents. As the inconvenience, accidents, and costs started to rise many insurance companies and savvy venues quit viewing the DJ as one more guest and now treat them as they do every other contractor working on the premises.

You need insurance because without it you enter that hotel like a risky driver with no auto insurance. The venues got sick of footing the bill for the damages.

So you are basically blaming the Baby Boomer, and older Gen X generation of DJs for doing a lot of stupid stuff at events over the years, and now us Millennial DJs have to pay for it! Thanks Guys!



Completely erroneous. None of this stuff happens with enough frequency for liability insurance to be of any real importance to the DJ Community. The worst that DJs have done with smoke machines is cause puddles or smoke alarms to go off. DJ Liability Insurance is not going to pay the fee from the fire department if they charge the venue for the call.

The Venue should have a No Smoke/Fog Machine Policy if they have had trouble with them before as well.

 

[steve149]

So you are basically blaming the Baby Boomer, and older Gen X generation of DJs for doing a lot of stupid stuff at events over the years, and now us Millennial DJs have to pay for it! Thanks Guys!



Completely erroneous. None of this stuff happens with enough frequency for liability insurance to be of any real importance to the DJ Community. The worst that DJs have done with smoke machines is cause puddles or smoke alarms to go off. DJ Liability Insurance is not going to pay the fee from the fire department if they charge the venue for the call.

The Venue should have a No Smoke/Fog Machine Policy if they have had trouble with them before as well.

You seem to believe that liability is only when you do something intentional. Given that anything can happen anytime to anyone, prudence, and running things like a business, dictate you cover your a$$ as best as possible.

 

[Jeff Romard]

So you are basically blaming the Baby Boomer, and older Gen X generation of DJs for doing a lot of stupid stuff at events over the years, and now us Millennial DJs have to pay for it! Thanks Guys!



Completely erroneous. None of this stuff happens with enough frequency for liability insurance to be of any real importance to the DJ Community. The worst that DJs have done with smoke machines is cause puddles or smoke alarms to go off. DJ Liability Insurance is not going to pay the fee from the fire department if they charge the venue for the call.

The Venue should have a No Smoke/Fog Machine Policy if they have had trouble with them before as well.

As I mentioned before I live in a Province where the law is in my favour as far as this goes. According to my Lawyer the venue has to have a policy in place to cover vendors yet I still carry insurance. Why? Because when it comes down to brass tax if there is a disaster I will be named in that lawsuit. The odds are pretty good I won't be required to pay as far as the litigation goes but I am going to be paying for a lawyer to defend me and using my time to be in court. I don't have the time or money to waste on that.

I can't recall offhand exactly what I pay but it's not more than $200/yr for sure...That's about $16.66 a month for peace of mind. If I get to the point it's hurting me I'll smoke one less pack that week

I'll give you one better I'll bet there are few here that have commercial insurance on their vehicle. I don't know the law in all jurisdictions but in most places you need commercial insurance to use your vehicle as a business vehicle

 

[steve149]

As I mentioned before I live in a Province where the law is in my favour as far as this goes. According to my Lawyer the venue has to have a policy in place to cover vendors yet I still carry insurance. Why? Because when it comes down to brass tax if there is a disaster I will be named in that lawsuit. The odds are pretty good I won't be required to pay as far as the litigation goes but I am going to be paying for a lawyer to defend me and using my time to be in court. I don't have the time or money to waste on that.

I can't recall offhand exactly what I pay but it's not more than $200/yr for sure...That's about $16.66 a month for peace of mind. If I get to the point it's hurting me I'll smoke one less pack that week

I'll give you one better I'll bet there are few here that have commercial insurance on their vehicle. I don't know the law in all jurisdictions but in most places you need commercial insurance to use your vehicle as a business vehicle

I talked to an agent years ago .. seemed (at the time) I didn't need commercial license since my truck wasn't titled in a company name, I didn't have any company identification on it, and the use of the vehicle wasn't a direct need of the business (delivery or pickup). I'm sure there is a line that can be crossed, but I think using a vehicle to transport your gear is still a potential personal use. YMMV.

 

[Jeff Romard]

I talked to an agent years ago .. seemed (at the time) I didn't need commercial license since my truck wasn't titled in a company name, I didn't have any company identification on it, and the use of the vehicle wasn't a direct need of the business (delivery or pickup). I'm sure there is a line that can be crossed, but I think using a vehicle to transport your gear is still a potential personal use. YMMV.

Yes it's a very fine line. According to my agent if you are using the vehicle and receiving compensation you should have commercial insurance but you can easily fly under the radar. If there was an accident you don't admit to being on the way to or from a gig.

In full disclosure I don't carry any commercial insurance on my vehicles anymore either. I used to when I was in the Taxi business because it was covered under my fleet insurance

 

[steve149]

Yes it's a very fine line. According to my agent if you are using the vehicle and receiving compensation you should have commercial insurance but you can easily fly under the radar. If there was an accident you don't admit to being on the way to or from a gig.

In full disclosure I don't carry any commercial insurance on my vehicles anymore either. I used to when I was in the Taxi business because it was covered under my fleet insurance

I think if you use the vehicle to move yourself to and from a gig where you get compensation, it's still not commercial use. Probably comes down to the equipment movement and there's probably a line that can get crossed. Bringing a speaker and mic to play music at a bar .. probably not commercial use. Pulling a modified trailer designed to hold specific gear .. probably is. In between .. not as sure.

 

[IceBurghDJ]

I bet not..'additional insured' is a very specific term so i'm told...check your 'acord' proof of insurance and you'll see a checkbox for 'additional insured'.
Instead of you being covered now your insurance covers THEM in case THEY are sued!

A type of status associated with general liability insurance policies that provides coverage to other individuals/groups that were not initially named. After endorsement, the additional insured will then be protected under the named insurer's policy and can file a claim in the event that they are sued.

And no insurance company is gonna take on added liability for free.

It's also agency specific .. RV Nuccio doesn't charge for creating an additional insured document .. I can do it myself online.

 

[IceBurghDJ]

Ask insurance agents what are the common claims for DJ's - damage to the venue.
Scratched doors and floors.

I broke a window in a door in a school when it closed unexpectedly and hit a corner of a speaker on my dolly.

A local venue put in marble dance floors and in one room the DJ sets up on it, and a DJ dropped something and broke a marble tile. They now require proof of insurance from all vendors..he had no insurance and I guess it was a hassle and a half to get him to pay for the repair.

I suppose your gear could short and start a fire.

House Insurance is certainly a must due to natural disasters and weather. Car Insurance is Required by Law. You are driving with Millions of other motorists on the road. Totally different situations than DJ Equipment Liability Event Insurance.

Your Speakers, and lights are not going to hurt or kill anybody.

Who walks along the walls at an event where up lights are placed? I doubt a claim has ever been put in by someone who tripped over an up light. I doubt a claim has ever been put in where a Speaker fell into a guest.

If the guest is drunk, and dances straight into the speaker stand, and get's hurt, your insurance company will deny that claim.

Now if you were shooting off pyrotechnics from your set up, and caught a guest's hair on fire...well...they have a legitimate claim against you. Maybe insurance is a good idea if you are using pyrotechnics in your shows.

 

[Proformance]

So you are basically blaming the Baby Boomer, and older Gen X generation of DJs for doing a lot of stupid stuff at events over the years, and now us Millennial DJs have to pay for it! Thanks Guys!

Completely erroneous. None of this stuff happens with enough frequency for liability insurance to be of any real importance to the DJ Community. The worst that DJs have done with smoke machines is cause puddles or smoke alarms to go off. DJ Liability Insurance is not going to pay the fee from the fire department if they charge the venue for the call.

The Venue should have a No Smoke/Fog Machine Policy if they have had trouble with them before as well.

If you're truly that naive about this subject, then I am talking specifically about DJs like you who know only so little enough to be dangerous. Liability is defined as the damage YOU cause others - either physical, mental, equitable, financial, commercial, or in lost opportunity either solely or in concert with other parties. This definition INCLUDES the venues insurance company.

If you set off the fire alarms using something for which you did not obtain WRITTEN permission from BOTH the venue and any local authority having jurisdiction, you are partially correct - the Fire department will not issue you the fine. However, the venues insurance company will sue you to recover the loss. So, ultimately you will end up paying it plus the added cost of collection if you are not properly insured.

In sleepy little Rural Town with it's volunteer Fire Dept maybe random sloppy behavior is forgiven, but in the big city where stupidity gets people killed; you can be darn sure the auditors are working full time.

 

[Proformance]

I talked to an agent years ago .. seemed (at the time) I didn't need commercial license since my truck wasn't titled in a company name, I didn't have any company identification on it, and the use of the vehicle wasn't a direct need of the business (delivery or pickup). I'm sure there is a line that can be crossed, but I think using a vehicle to transport your gear is still a potential personal use. YMMV.

That line pops up with respect to what other than yourself the vehicle is carrying. It's one thing to rear end someone and quite another to send a lantern bar or truss through their windshield. Your insurance company may look for ways to enjoin you if it's clear the vehicle was being used primarily for hauling and delivery of business equipment, yet you insured it only for personal use and the standard commute.

A more pertinent line is crossed when you have employees using their own vehicles to get yoru gear and themselves to and from events. This is not covered by your or even their own standard auto policy. The coverage required is known as: "business use of un-owned vehicles" and is designed to protect the employer from claims arising out of this and other non-owned vehciles and drivers working on behalf of the business.

 

[DJ Ricky B]

If you're truly that naive about this subject, then I am talking specifically about DJs like you who know only so little enough to be dangerous. Liability is defined as the damage YOU cause others - either physical, mental, equitable, financial, commercial, or in lost opportunity either solely or in concert with other parties. This definition INCLUDES the venues insurance company.

If you set off the fire alarms using something for which you did not obtain WRITTEN permission from BOTH the venue and any local authority having jurisdiction, you are partially correct - the Fire department will not issue you the fine. However, the venues insurance company will sue you to recover the loss. So, ultimately you will end up paying it plus the added cost of collection if you are not properly insured.

In sleepy little Rural Town with it's volunteer Fire Dept maybe random sloppy behavior is forgiven, but in the big city where stupidity gets people killed; you can be darn sure the auditors are working full time.

I carry Liability Insurance, but only because there is typically 1 to 2 venues a year that require to see a certificate. Prior to the days of a small handful of venues asking to see a certificate, there was no need for paying into the Money Scheme.

Professional DJs carry out their productions safely. If you are a Pro, and pay attention to what you are doing...you won't cause anybody harm.

If a Drunk guest decides to throw themselves into a speaker stand. That is on them. Not me. Case Closed. If in the super duper rare .00000001% chance that I am sued for this situation, and they actually win the case...How are they going to collect $300,000 from me? LOL.

I never have, and never will damage a venue to any degree where insurance will need to be involved. If I happen to break the glass window to a door while loading in and the venue demands I pay for it, I will own up to it, and pay for the repair. Simple as that.

Again...this is all fictitious BS.

The only reason that I and 80% or more of DJs out there carry DJ Liability insurance is because we get that 1 venue once in a blue moon that requests the certificate. It is the truth. The insurance is only $200 to $300 for a single system set up, so the DJ coughs up the money to send the venue the certificate. Some end up becoming ADJA or Name members to get the discount on insurance....(Again, the money scheme). The DJ doesn't want to lose the $500+ gig they booked so they just pay for the insurance because "1 gig pays for it" , and the DJ doesn't want to look bad with their client. Then you also get the added bonus of using it in your marketing which has been watered down over the years. In 2010 it may have been somewhat effective. Not so much today.



If I walk into Wal Mart Drunk, and happen to "trip" over a product display, and end up fracturing my pelvis...can I sue WalMart and win? If this was the case...there would be many, many more lawsuits out there. Plenty of High, doped up, and drunk people entering Wal Mart on a daily basis.

If you are so worried about a guest tripping over your equipment, then why not place yellow warning cones in front of every single piece including all the Up Lights in the room? I have heard that if a place of business has a yellow or orange"Wet floor" sign placed near a puddle then it frees them of any responsibility IF a Guest/Customer slips on the wet floor and becomes paralyzed. Key is putting the wet floor sign out quickly. I have been told this by management of multiple corporate restaurants in the past. Having a Wet Floor Sign out ASAP is of upmost important when there is a major spill or the roof is leaking...

If you have a Yellow"Warning Speaker Tripod" or "Warning Light on Floor" sign sitting there in the path of the guest and in the open for all to see then all responsibility is taken off of your shoulders. Why are you not putting warning signs out letting guests know your equipment is there? ...

 

[Proformance]

Professional DJs carry out their productions safely. If you are a Pro, and pay attention to what you are doing...you won't cause anybody harm.

Yes, and there are any number of coal mining companies that agree with you. What's the worst that could happen?

If a Drunk guest decides to throw themselves into a speaker stand. If in the chance that I am sued for this situation, and they actually win the case...How are they going to collect $300,000 from me?

They attach your paycheck for the rest of your life, seize real estate, savings, retirement funds, tax refunds, lottery winnings, inheritances, life insurance, and your estate - ultimately leaving the next generation of your family with nothing but debt. Generally, most judgements survive bankruptcy.

If I happen to break the glass window to a door while loading in and the venue demands I pay for it, I will own up to it, and pay for the repair. Simple as that.

It sounds simple, until you find out the cost of clean-up, security mitigation, and replacing that custom commercial glass on a busy downtown street runs as high as $10,000 after permits, union glazier fees, traffic and construction details, etc.

Again...this is all fictitious BS.

...until it happens to you.

 

[Jeff Romard]

If I walk into Wal Mart Drunk, and happen to "trip" over a product display, and end up fracturing my pelvis...can I sue WalMart and win? If this was the case...there would be many, many more lawsuits out there. Plenty of High, doped up, and drunk people entering Wal Mart on a daily basis.

If you are so worried about a guest tripping over your equipment, then why not place yellow warning cones in front of every single piece including all the Up Lights in the room? I have heard that if a place of business has a yellow or orange"Wet floor" sign placed near a puddle then it frees them of any responsibility IF a Guest/Customer slips on the wet floor and becomes paralyzed. Key is putting the wet floor sign out quickly. I have been told this by management of multiple corporate restaurants in the past. Having a Wet Floor Sign out ASAP is of upmost important when there is a major spill or the roof is leaking...

If you have a Yellow"Warning Speaker Tripod" or "Warning Light on Floor" sign sitting there in the path of the guest and in the open for all to see then all responsibility is taken off of your shoulders. Why are you not putting warning signs out letting guests know your equipment is there? ...

Warning signs don't relieve you of responsibility but they may lessen the award and either way without insurance you still have to go to battle

Think a drunk won't sue? Think again and the fact that he is drunk doesn't negate liability in most cases

Try a few of these

10 Ridiculously Frivolous Lawsuits Against Big Businesses | Business Insurance Quotes: Compare Providers for Free

And a few more

15 Crazy Lawsuits that Make You Want to Sue Someone

 

[DJ Ricky B]

Warning signs don't relieve you of responsibility but they may lessen the award and either way without insurance you still have to go to battle

Think a drunk won't sue? Think again and the fact that he is drunk doesn't negate liability in most cases

Try a few of these

10 Ridiculously Frivolous Lawsuits Against Big Businesses | Business Insurance Quotes: Compare Providers for Free

And a few more

15 Crazy Lawsuits that Make You Want to Sue Someone

6. Inmate Sues Himself
April 1995: Chesapeake, Virginia prison inmate Robert Lee Brock was upset at himself for getting arrested for breaking and entering and grand larceny, so he decided to make himself pay — by suing himself for $5 million. Stating that he violated his own religious beliefs by committing the crime, he sought payment for a civil rights offense. Of course, since he didn’t have $5 million to pay himself, he asked that the state pay on his behalf. His suit was thrown out.


...Dumbest $hit ever.

Seriously, common sense is something society needs to re learn I suppose. Just like the case was thrown out here...Any Ridiculous claim against a Mobile DJ at an event would be thrown out in court as well.

 

[Proformance]

It's not the drunk that is the hazard per se; we can predict a drunk and stumbling person at a party. Even sober people stumble and knock over speaker stands.

What escalates the hazard is the act of surrounding the drunk or stumbler with heavy speakers 6ft up on loose tripods that can fall over. The DJ is really one of the few people in that instance who knows what kind of hazard that speaker & stand presents in a room full of people drinking or not. Perhaps more so with children than with drunks.

This is the essence of liability - the fact that there is usually one or more persons or entity that knew the hazard, and could so easily predict and prevent what was inevitably going to occur.

Ricky,
Your posts are repeating the tired old refrain that "accidents happen to careless or stupid people" when the reality is that accidents surround those who ignore the stupid people.

Common sense says: don't lift speakers to any height from which they are not redundantly secured. The problem really isn't the drunk - it's the inferior rigging that causes injury.

Setup safely, and insure yourself nonetheless.

 

[IceBurghDJ]

Having been sued for something stupid I can tell you several things I learned...

1) they sue everyone. So the drunk will sue the venue for serving him too much.
2) if you have insurance they deal with it, NOT YOU. Saves a LOT of headaches, believe me.
3) they usually settle out of court..and often the insurance co will settle even if they'll win in court - just cheaper. Going to court is ungodly expensive.
4) winning is one thing, collecting is something else entirely.

And if a drunk knocks over your speaker odds are it won't hit anyone - it will hit the floor, maybe you and your table. So you're more likely to suffering the loss than a stranger.

what's more likely - a drunk getting hurt your throwing out your back moving gear? Maybe workers comp insurance would be a better way to spend the money? LOL

 

[steve149]

I bet not..'additional insured' is a very specific term so i'm told...check your 'acord' proof of insurance and you'll see a checkbox for 'additional insured'.
Instead of you being covered now your insurance covers THEM in case THEY are sued!

A type of status associated with general liability insurance policies that provides coverage to other individuals/groups that were not initially named. After endorsement, the additional insured will then be protected under the named insurer's policy and can file a claim in the event that they are sued.

And no insurance company is gonna take on added liability for free.

Don't know .. I log in, press a button marked "Additional Insured - Cetificate of Liability" and get to this page:

 

[Jeff Romard]

Seriously, common sense is something society needs to re learn I suppose. Just like the case was thrown out here...Any Ridiculous claim against a Mobile DJ at an event would be thrown out in court as well.

Maybe it will but you still have to defend it to the tune of thousands of dollars. You can then sue for frivolous litigation but then you have to collect. By that time it's really not important anymore because you are bankrupt