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Weddings Brides wanting different/hard to find music
- Thread starter trafficgoo
- Start date
Well, since you drudged up an ancient post of mine from nowhere (and yes I still stand by it), I will come out swingin' myself!
"All music is subject to availability"
One of the problems with that is that EVERYTHING is "available" if you look hard enough and are willing to pay the price to get it.
All says that says is:
a) I dont have it right now
and/or
b) I couldn't find it in the x-number of places I tried to find it.
Not real rock-solid protection from a legal standpoint if someone *wanted* to call you on it.
Also, there is nothing in that one simple statement that alludes to the fact that you need a reasonable amount of advance notice to TRY to look for something you don't have or secure it for the performance.
So you are not protecting yourself on those grounds either and if that is all you have pertaining to music availability in your paperwork, you are not protected from a client who calls you the day before a gig to get an obscure song.
That that obscure song may not have been "available to you" between the time you got the request and loaded up for the gig has NOTHING to do with the actual AVAILABILITY in general of the selection requested. Your reliance on that clause assumes that any judge hearing the case would allow you to be VERY creative with the interpretation of "availability" at any given time.
So yes, it IS a bit more nuanced than "6 little words."
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It's really simple for me...I don't write music for DJs. I write and sell to brides, grooms, mothers, fathers, and other wedding party members that are looking for something unique on their wedding day. I get found because they go looking for just that online. DJs don't buy my music to play unless requested and less than 5% of my sales are to DJs. My music is found and bought because someone in the world wants something good that has not been played to death. Unfortunately (and fortunately) because I don't have any airplay or overexposure, I fit that niche.
When you say "typical cost" you probably refer to a HUGE record label that has produced a hit song with a major artist at some point. I would assume that your typical requested song has been a "hit" at one time or another. If so, millions of dollars have been earned somewhere for that song. Typically the songwriter and label earn the most of that cut. Independent labels can't compete on that level with no airplay, no major advertising, and no videos playing on CMT or whatever. It has nothing to do with the quality of the song, it's just the way the business is. There are big dogs and little dogs. I'm a little dog in the industry. Unless I give up at least 50% ownership to the big dog, I don't have a chance of playing in their league. And since we don't have those resources, it's impossible to produce the same quality product and sell it for the same price as a song with that much exposure and earn a profit. It can't be done.
So, when I hire Garth Brook's piano player, Dixie Chicks drummer, and James Taylor's violinist to perform on my songs, it takes a lot more time to recoup the invested money because my songs simply will not be heard or purchased until someone goes online looking for something different on their wedding day.
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Sure there could be proffit - you cut out artwork and cd-pressing expenses!
Have you ever written a song...It's hard to think that the song that took me over a month to write and thousands of dollars to produce and record could be sold to someone for the same price as a candy bar.
Think about this. How much is the price of punch at a wedding reception? $20-30? How much is the cake? $400-800? I have enough feedback from customers that lead me to believe that the punch or cake won't be remembered for very long, but one of my original songs (This Ring, Here We Stand, Dance With Me, Daddy's Angel, or A Mother's Song) will be remembered for a very long time. $11 is not a bad price to pay for a memory that will last forever.
YouTube- Daddy's Angel-Perfect New Father/Daughter Wedding Dance Song
YouTube- Dance With Me- New Wedding Song / Wedding Music (1st Dance)
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A couple of points:
1) Your pricing effects whomever buys your music, DJs or otherwise. The general public, including brides, grooms, and fathers of brides, buy music online for their ipods and other digital devices.
2) Labels, both big AND small, participate in online stores, like itunes, amazon, cd baby, and many others. To suggest that you have to be a major label to participate is simple not true. Your pricing is six to ten times higher than other artist-driven labels.
3) Agreed - there is MUCH more to a hit recording, beyond the quality of the song and/or recording.
So, when I hire Garth Brook's piano player, Dixie Chicks drummer, and James Taylor's violinist to perform on my songs, it takes a lot more time to recoup the invested money because my songs simply will not be heard or purchased until someone goes online looking for something different on their wedding day.
I'm confused. Are you trying to sell a lot of your music, or are you trying to stay deliberately staying "unique" and sell fewer copies (yet make a MUCH greater per copy profit, based on your business model)?
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I do participate with Itunes for my classical songs, Amazon for all my CDs, and CD baby for all my CDs. I just don't allow my original songs to be sold for .99 (.67 each for my cut). Again, nobody goes looking for for T Carter Music because they just heard it on the radio. Trust me, independent labels that sell on these platforms don't really make anything. I'm one of CD Baby's better sellers and I made less than $3,000 dollars last year from my sales with them and that includes Amazon and my classical CDs on iTunes.
As a DJ, I don't expect you to understand. You are not buying my music for an emotional purpose for one of the biggest days of your life. The people who buy my songs do so for that reason. And, they don't mind paying $11 for that.
It's really simple, it's only $11. Regardless of what others charge...
DJs have different rates, am I correct? Why the double standard? If a DJ in NY want's to charge $800 for a gig and a DJ in Cali wants to charge $1500, who complains that all DJs should be the same price?
I personally know of a DJ who lost a $1700 gig because he lied to his client and said that he could not find my music. This was after the client gave him my website and exact order info. The client was furious! This was over an $11 song (would have been $7 if he would have signed up for a DJ coupon). I don't understand...
I feel justified selling a unique wedding product for $11. The wedding industry is a whole different deal. Have you seen the price of catering? What I offer for the wedding day is very, very affordable. I offer a special moment. Nobody else in the world is doing what I'm doing. I write moment specific wedding songs and use the best Nashville musicians to perform them so that people can actually use a great sounding song that has words that apply to them.
Have DJs EVER used a song that they did not pay for? If so, what's the complain? I've had DJs call me before and tell me that almost all of their collection is from LimeWire or other free file sharing. Others I talk to are very ethical and only play songs that they have paid for. Regardless, someone sent them to me for a song that they really wanted to use. I'm not sure whey anyone would ever steer them away from a song that they had their heart set on just because they didn't want to pay for it.
Even if I dropped my prices to 1/2 of what they are now, I would go under. The web fees, postal fees, Cybersource Credit card fees, taxes, and production overhead would bury me. This is why nobody does this! Seriously, do a search of independent wedding music writers and you will see the prices are consistent and there are very few of us. Just about all other small companies doing this do a little better than break even and are just glad to get their music played.
Not sure why I'm defending myself here...:sqconfused: I didn't join this forum to be raked over the coals about my prices. I only wanted to offer some insight and possible discounts for the friendly fourm.
My business model is good. I wouldn't be doing what I do if it were not. I've learned a lot about what I do in 3 years.
Best wishes to all. I believe that this place is better suited for DJs only.
Tony
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I have a better understanding now how it all works but to make one point about people not looking on I tunes for you music. I actually went there when I got this request from my bride. I had no knowledge of T Carter before this and went there looking and could not find it. So a basic google search found your music.
So maybe some people after hearing your name do go to I tunes looking. I did. Not saying it is a reason to change how you do things. Just an observation.
So maybe some people after hearing your name do go to I tunes looking. I did. Not saying it is a reason to change how you do things. Just an observation.
Our DJ bought over 50 songs for our wedding and reception. It is part of the cost of doing business.
Mike
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If your DJ had to buy 50 songs he either was not a working DJ and didn't have many songs or you had some weird requests. In a 4 hour dance you realistically can only play 60 songs so you pretty much picked the entire playlist. I would not have bought 50 songs and if you had that stipulation, I probably would not have taken the event.
I have it in my contract that must play lists can only be 10-15 songs and the only guaranteed songs are the special dances. And that has to be initialed when signing the contract so they can't throw that back at me come planning time.
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Good to know. I asked about your business model. Thanks for your candor.
I understand condescension, and it offends me, usually. Despite how stupid you may think I am, I understand everything you're saying, and have yet to agree or disagree with it in this thread. If you feel attacked, simply by having questions asked, perhaps YOU don't understand.
Did it occur to you that many of the DJs here ARE married?
Please find anywhere where I said you cannot or should not charge what you charge. In fact, I asked you more about your business model of charging far more than the "norm" for your music, in order to possibly learn how to better apply it to the DJ business.
If you think that our potential customers don't complain about DJ pricing, clearly you don't know much about the DJ business. Sometimes they DO complain about it. I thought perhaps you had an answer in your business that would have been useful in ours. But apparently, you're just too smart for a simple DJ like me.
While my decision probably would have been different, we could just as easily enumerate our business expenses, and complain about how far $1700 DOESN'T go, when it comes to OUR expenses. Just as I don't really care what you paid Neil Diamond's violin player (Neil HAS a violin player?), I don't expect you to care about MY expenses, either. I believe that supporting $11 downloads will only make more of them pop up.
To my knowledge, the first person doing what you're doing is Mikki Vierik. There are a handful of others, to my knowledge.
I'm not defending illegal downloads. At most, I'm wrangling with my position regarding whether I should require myself to purchase special music at prices like this, or require my clients to foot the bill, if they want your music.
So, you're the only one doing this, or many people are doing this? Whose prices are you consistent with?
I'm not sure why you are either, considering, other than Cam's comment that he doesn't like your music, I'm not seeing an "attack" on you.
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I used this gentleman's Wedding Ballad song this year also. Very nice song for a first dance. I ended up chatting with him a bit and told him I was going to get his song and he sent me a link to get it for free.
Wedding Ballad by Josh Stewart. Great song. http://www.joshstewartmusic.net/music/intro3.html
Wedding Ballad by Josh Stewart. Great song. http://www.joshstewartmusic.net/music/intro3.html
So, when I hire Garth Brook's piano player, Dixie Chicks drummer, and James Taylor's violinist to perform on my songs, it takes a lot more time to recoup the invested money because my songs simply will not be heard or purchased until someone goes online looking for something different on their wedding day.
While having studio musicians tenuously associated with name-artists certainly will have its fringe-marketing benefits, the same product could be produced by hiring studio musicians, or even local-scene guys who wouldn't carry the same price tags, scheduling conflicts, or logistical challenges.
Simply being a musician myself and having worked in various aspects of music over the years, it goes without saying that superior quality, professionalism, and musicianship can be had by getting and using unknowns.
There's one obvious way to cut the overhead.
Don't get me wrong - I understand what you are saying - I know that with the expenses you have, you need to recoup costs, but let's leave it at that and not pretend there AREN'T cheaper ways you could produce the same quality product for less.
I don't fault you for capitalizing on sentimentality - all of us in the industry do it so some degree or another!
DjDennis
RIP- My Dad (2011), Sister (2013) and Mum (2017)
Well then, you do it your way and I'll keep mine the same.
So for the last 30+ years - never had a problem
they always ask me if I dont have anything
but thats right you have every song ever made and even
after working in places localy here like EMI, BMG, Festival, Tempo Music
they tell me when lines get deleted (love them freebies too)
so if you havent bought it thenm and wait 6months and then you cant find it.
they have even delete tracks from itunes if its not bought
maybe its the clients you get
have a nice day then
It was all Christian music, country, and 80's B-sides.
We are VERY picky about our music.
Mike
Steve, I don't think Tony was trying to be condescending with that statement, I think you just took it the wrong way.
Tony, I would like to apologize for the members of this board that are attacking you only because they're too cheap to pay for your music.
What you may not realize is that the brides 'normally' ask their DJ to purchase your recordings, they only listen to them on-line. In every case I've been asked to play one or more of your tunes at a ceremony, not once has the bride supplied. What they will do is point me in the direction of your site where 'I' can buy it. I'm not sure who's cheaper, the bride for passing on the cost to the DJ or the DJ whining about paying for it. Lol
Once again, thanks for all your hard work and dedication to music. Every good DJ is simply in it to bring the music to the people, much like yourself; toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe... Hopefully you'll decide to stick around...
Tony, I would like to apologize for the members of this board that are attacking you only because they're too cheap to pay for your music.
What you may not realize is that the brides 'normally' ask their DJ to purchase your recordings, they only listen to them on-line. In every case I've been asked to play one or more of your tunes at a ceremony, not once has the bride supplied. What they will do is point me in the direction of your site where 'I' can buy it. I'm not sure who's cheaper, the bride for passing on the cost to the DJ or the DJ whining about paying for it. Lol
Once again, thanks for all your hard work and dedication to music. Every good DJ is simply in it to bring the music to the people, much like yourself; toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe... Hopefully you'll decide to stick around...
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Steven (maestro), I know now that you think I am cheap but let me ask you this, if say you had Esoteric's wedding dance and he wanted 50 songs and they happened to be $10 each, would you do it? I highly doubt it.
Most business persons look for ways to cut costs, even though some of the DJs here like to say "It is a write off". That doesn't matter. In January, that write off doesn't help until the next tax season so you still have to buy all this stuff.
I do think $10 is too much for 1 song. Others don't. But that doesn't mean we are cheap. Just do things differently.
Most business persons look for ways to cut costs, even though some of the DJs here like to say "It is a write off". That doesn't matter. In January, that write off doesn't help until the next tax season so you still have to buy all this stuff.
I do think $10 is too much for 1 song. Others don't. But that doesn't mean we are cheap. Just do things differently.
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Ok, give me another possibility, based on this statement:
What do YOU think he meant by this?
I think he was simply trying to explain that the bride would have an emotional investment in the song while we would only see it as an added cost. I think he meant that since you are the DJ and not the bride, you wouldn't understand. There is nothing wrong with saying that in my books since I know for a fact that the songs a bride picks for her wedding, have no emotional investment on my part.
Tony is obviously providing a needed service since many brides are purchasing his music. With that being said, this is not Top 40 stuff here guys and as Tony said, it is hard to make a buck at it. Does anyone doubt that?
Karl, I also hear the 'it's a write-off' statement all the time. Some people think it's free or something, like the government pays for the purchase, they just don't understand... If you pay a hundred bucks for something, that hundred bucks still comes out of YOUR pocket and not some imaginary government bank-account. Sure, that would be a hundred bucks worth of income that you wouldn't have to pay tax on but that's about it...
Gotta run, I'm at a wedding right now...
Tony is obviously providing a needed service since many brides are purchasing his music. With that being said, this is not Top 40 stuff here guys and as Tony said, it is hard to make a buck at it. Does anyone doubt that?
Karl, I also hear the 'it's a write-off' statement all the time. Some people think it's free or something, like the government pays for the purchase, they just don't understand... If you pay a hundred bucks for something, that hundred bucks still comes out of YOUR pocket and not some imaginary government bank-account. Sure, that would be a hundred bucks worth of income that you wouldn't have to pay tax on but that's about it...
Gotta run, I'm at a wedding right now...