I have a pair of EV Live-X 12s that had a bad thermal problem. EV stepped in and sent me brand new amp sections. I've only used them a couple of times since then but they haven't gone thermal any more.
How much is enough? (speaker/sound)
- Thread starter IceBurghDJ
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I have a pair of EV Live-X 12s that had a bad thermal problem. EV stepped in and sent me brand new amp sections. I've only used them a couple of times since then but they haven't gone thermal any more.
If I recall, yours were part of the 1st batch. I use them quite a bit and they have never gone thermal (knock wood).
Yes .. and no. The MFR's all have their own ways of measuring watts. It's kind of like the horsepower or towing / hauling capacity race in the autoworld.
More watt's means crap if you have the EQ set so that you're overdriving. If you're referring to powered speakers, it gets a little dirty. A 1000W box is generally not a 1000W box. It's generally a 500Wx2 amp .. so while the low end 'might' see 500W, the high end rarely would see more than 100.
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Yeah, the whole watts thing is a lot of smoke and mirrors...rms, peak, program and then how many channels are they counting? And yeah, I've seen the powered speaker list separate figures for each speaker.
I can find two different ratings for my amps in teh same owners manual...
I was taught growing up that ohms matter most - mismatch that and things release their magic smoke. My amps will do 8, 4 or 2 ohms, nearly doubling the output as resistance drops. More fun calculations!
Reading online the suggestions seem to be to have amps that will output more than the speakers ratings...I learned to do the opposite so you can't blow a speaker.
My current setup is PR12 or 15 speakers, 400w rating, and mackie M1400i amp that is rated at 250 or 300w (depends what page you read) at 8ohm.
I just wonder at times with my wimpy watts compared to what I see marketed today if i'm missing something.
I can find two different ratings for my amps in teh same owners manual...
I was taught growing up that ohms matter most - mismatch that and things release their magic smoke. My amps will do 8, 4 or 2 ohms, nearly doubling the output as resistance drops. More fun calculations!
Reading online the suggestions seem to be to have amps that will output more than the speakers ratings...I learned to do the opposite so you can't blow a speaker.
My current setup is PR12 or 15 speakers, 400w rating, and mackie M1400i amp that is rated at 250 or 300w (depends what page you read) at 8ohm.
I just wonder at times with my wimpy watts compared to what I see marketed today if i'm missing something.
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You are more likely to damage a speaker when the amp is under-rated. A 100w amp will produce sound from a 400w speaker but, when the amp is driven to clipping it will be sending square waves which produce excessive heat in the voice coil no matter how small your amp is. The heat melts the glue/varnish in the coil windings. This is typically a slow death. The heated fluid condition on the coil may prevent a failure during the gig but, once it coils down it will re-cure in deformity and the speaker will be DOA the next time you use it. This is truly a "blown" speaker.
A higher rated amp will ensure that you get the power you want from the speakers without clipping the signal and over-heating the voice-coils. This is the preferred configuration and simply requires that you give the speakers the level of clean power they can handle without over-driving them. An over-drive condition causes an over-excursion of the coil, and is the instantaneous failure most people think of as a "blown" speaker. You can prevent this by fusing your drivers. Over-powering them will blow the fuse before blowing the speaker.
Power matters because, large drivers have a minimum rating as well as a maximum rating. You will not get the frequency response a speaker is capable of if you do not have enough power to move larger concentric portions of the full cone. This is why large speakers without the option to easily change parameters can sound crappy playing background music and then great when you crank them up for dancing. There just isn't enough power at low volume to get optimal frequency response from certain drivers in the system.
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You said you bought stuff from a guy that has retired. You never mentioned what that stuff is except that it's heavy. What are the name brands and models of the stuff you bought? That will tell us a lot. It's not about just having a lot of speakers but very good quality speakers that will sound good and get the job done right. I can have 15 Gemini speakers to use but will that be right for the job or sound good enough for the job? If you're talking about getting into doing large school dances I would check out the place where the dance is going to be held so you know what you need and where the gear should be placed. DON'T OVER EXTEND YOURSELF TAKING ON A JOB THAT YOU'RE NOT QUALIFIED TO DO. Make sure you are able to properly do the job first so you don't disappoint the client and their guest there leaving them to give you a bad review.
We just finished doing a school dance and used the 2 Yamaha DSR 115 tops and 2 Earthquakes. That was for between 100-150 kids in a school cafeteria. We did that to impress the client by over delivering and not under delivering. They gave us a ton of compliments. We ran both the tops and subs at 12 o'clock and that was more then good enough. It's not just about what you use but knowing what to do with what you're using. Good luck with your business, hope all goes well and you make lots of money.
We just finished doing a school dance and used the 2 Yamaha DSR 115 tops and 2 Earthquakes. That was for between 100-150 kids in a school cafeteria. We did that to impress the client by over delivering and not under delivering. They gave us a ton of compliments. We ran both the tops and subs at 12 o'clock and that was more then good enough. It's not just about what you use but knowing what to do with what you're using. Good luck with your business, hope all goes well and you make lots of money.
My experience and please correct me guys if I'm wrong, if you're running everything at full volume then you don't have enough gear for the job. You shouldn't have to run the speakers at no more than 3/4 of the way up and that might be pushing it. By pushing things to the limit you might think that you're impressing the crowd because of how loud it sounds. My experience when you do that is you get a lot of distortion instead of good clean sound. Most times we run our setup at 12 o'clock and for most events we do that's good enough. The subs depending on which subs we use and the venue we can run full volume. For the Earthquakes I use a QSC 2450 amp and can run them at full volume through out an event and don't have to worry about any issues.
two mackie fr1400 amps (main and sub or backup - @8ohm 250-300w/channel), 2 mackie s505 speakers (now as backup as damn they're heavy).
Peavey 18" sub with upgraded speaker. Run it at 250w but it can handle 700 (which if I bridge my amp I can do)
I've added to peavey PR12 speakers and PR15s and an ev evx 12" powered sub (700w). (all other speakers are passive, 8 ohm)
As for 'full power'...too many variables IMO to really define that. When I changed software my volume went up...NOTHING ELSE changed. Odd? I don't know. Seemed way to low/soft before but now is great.
SOOO...the software/mixer gain is 1/2 way, channel sliders 3/4 (at the heavy mark), out of that I run it into a peavey usb6 mixer where I can up teh gain more...but at 0/0 db marks it's 'full power' (volume wise, leds are not clipping on the mixer, the bbe or the amp). The amp I have at 2/3 to 3/4 and never turn it above that (or below really - I use the peavey mixer to adjust volume).
I avoid clipping and distortion at all sound levels. I can turn it up (at home at least, 2 car garage sized room) to the point it physically hurts...then sure, it sounds distorted to me after 5 minutes...but stepping outside it's not.
I plan to set everything up outside before my next gig (may 30, a wedding, small room with too many people in it -190) and try out different combos of speakers/subs.
the small sub won't shake the place but sounds really good and is easy to pack and move. The 18" sub will cause mayhem but it's big, heavy and needs the amp (which I take as backup anyway). I'm not sure I can get my 15" tops and 18" sub in the car..I can do the 12t/18s or 15t/12s..thinking of the 12/18 combo for the wedding. Played the 12's in the room before and it worked well, but it was 1/2 the crowd.
Did a school dance with the 15t/12s and worked off a stage in a cafeteria( stone not wood/risers) and sounded good, but didn't have that 'thump' in the chest the 18" sub does.
Peavey 18" sub with upgraded speaker. Run it at 250w but it can handle 700 (which if I bridge my amp I can do)
I've added to peavey PR12 speakers and PR15s and an ev evx 12" powered sub (700w). (all other speakers are passive, 8 ohm)
As for 'full power'...too many variables IMO to really define that. When I changed software my volume went up...NOTHING ELSE changed. Odd? I don't know. Seemed way to low/soft before but now is great.
SOOO...the software/mixer gain is 1/2 way, channel sliders 3/4 (at the heavy mark), out of that I run it into a peavey usb6 mixer where I can up teh gain more...but at 0/0 db marks it's 'full power' (volume wise, leds are not clipping on the mixer, the bbe or the amp). The amp I have at 2/3 to 3/4 and never turn it above that (or below really - I use the peavey mixer to adjust volume).
I avoid clipping and distortion at all sound levels. I can turn it up (at home at least, 2 car garage sized room) to the point it physically hurts...then sure, it sounds distorted to me after 5 minutes...but stepping outside it's not.
I plan to set everything up outside before my next gig (may 30, a wedding, small room with too many people in it -190) and try out different combos of speakers/subs.
the small sub won't shake the place but sounds really good and is easy to pack and move. The 18" sub will cause mayhem but it's big, heavy and needs the amp (which I take as backup anyway). I'm not sure I can get my 15" tops and 18" sub in the car..I can do the 12t/18s or 15t/12s..thinking of the 12/18 combo for the wedding. Played the 12's in the room before and it worked well, but it was 1/2 the crowd.
Did a school dance with the 15t/12s and worked off a stage in a cafeteria( stone not wood/risers) and sounded good, but didn't have that 'thump' in the chest the 18" sub does.
Subs don't need to 'shake the room' to be properly heard. They need to shake the room to be felt. If you're wanting to shake the room, you may want to make sure you have insurance to cover problems that may be caused by such.
It sounds like to me you need to find out what each piece of gear you have can do and understand that some gear will naturally be heaver then others. My Earthquakes are much lighter than my Yorkville 801p subs. That's because the Yorkville subs have an amp built into them. Certain events don't need much thump. A school dance to me you need a lot of thump considering it was in a school cafeteria. You say certain speakers won't fit in the car. That's where either you need to consider buying or renting a van. If renting a van I would pass the cost on to the client.
What you've been talking about since you are fairly new to DJing is what you get to learn over time. In a small room I wouldn't use either the Earthquakes or Yorkvilles. I would use my Yamaha subs and be done with it. You would get plenty of bass without overkill leaving people deft for a few hours after the event..
What you've been talking about since you are fairly new to DJing is what you get to learn over time. In a small room I wouldn't use either the Earthquakes or Yorkvilles. I would use my Yamaha subs and be done with it. You would get plenty of bass without overkill leaving people deft for a few hours after the event..
It takes time/experience to learn what the gear will do/sound like..no substitute for that.
Renting a van is out of the question. I have a cargo trailer if i need space. the real issue is I can't get 75lb speakers onto stands safely alone. So I got lighter speakers. Alternatively I could hire help of course, but lighter speakers are cheaper long-term and more reliable - they'll be available for every gig where hired help may not be (have done that so i know).
There is also ROI to consider - sure a $10,000 system is gonna be great in many ways...but if you only generate $8k a year in sales it's not a wise idea unless you like working for negative income. I realize one has to invest in a biz, but the biz also has to pay the help and it's costs or it's not a biz, but a hobby or charity.
If I can get a system that fits in my car and is light so I can work alone vs using my truck/trailer (so 10mpg vs 30mpg) I can be more cost-efficient and more profitable.
And learning what gear to have and when to use what is part of that efficiency. Do it right and WOM grows.
The question that needs answered for all of us is "why should you be hired" over all other DJs...one can be cheaper, sound better, bring added value (lights perhaps), etc. Cause bottom line we all play the same music in the mind of the client.
Renting a van is out of the question. I have a cargo trailer if i need space. the real issue is I can't get 75lb speakers onto stands safely alone. So I got lighter speakers. Alternatively I could hire help of course, but lighter speakers are cheaper long-term and more reliable - they'll be available for every gig where hired help may not be (have done that so i know).
There is also ROI to consider - sure a $10,000 system is gonna be great in many ways...but if you only generate $8k a year in sales it's not a wise idea unless you like working for negative income. I realize one has to invest in a biz, but the biz also has to pay the help and it's costs or it's not a biz, but a hobby or charity.
If I can get a system that fits in my car and is light so I can work alone vs using my truck/trailer (so 10mpg vs 30mpg) I can be more cost-efficient and more profitable.
And learning what gear to have and when to use what is part of that efficiency. Do it right and WOM grows.
The question that needs answered for all of us is "why should you be hired" over all other DJs...one can be cheaper, sound better, bring added value (lights perhaps), etc. Cause bottom line we all play the same music in the mind of the client.
I'm thinkin' you should listen to your own advice.
How do you make people deft?
True to a degree .. but if you have that system for 10 years, it 'cost' you $1,000 a year. What's your ROI now? Do you think many places are able to pay off their investments within a year?
True .. as long as you are delivering proper sound.
One can be cheaper .. usually not sound better. Hard to bring 'added value' if you're cheap. We may all play music .. but we all get there a different way.
I thought you had the EL36? Which Quakes do you have Mix? Except for the JS series they are all 150 Lbs or higher the Yorkies are only 137 Lbs. I've used both and the CV are easier to move for one person but the Yorkies still weigh less
Just out of curiosity didn't you post a while back that you ran the quakes without a crossover?
If you go with the time the IRS allows you to depreciate your gear, then 3 years would the proper payback time.
But ROI can be whatever you want it to be. Perhaps you're prefer to figure a life expectancy of you're own - well, that might be when you feel it's outdated, when you want to upgrade, or when the market shifts, or the gear looks too beat up to be seen by the public, etc.
My mackie stuff was purchased in 1999 by the original owner and still works fine. Based on that timeframe it can pay for itself over and over and over again.
Lighting from then is long gone.
Yes and no. Jeff Beck can make a crap guitar sound great and I'd not be able to make the best guitar in the world sound like much of anything. My son can play the bass and so can Paul McCartney...who's gonna sound better playing the same song?
Experience counts for a lot, but i know people playing guitar for 40 years that still suck. And some that spend thousands on gear and still sound like crap.
It's not so much what you got but what you do with it. My PR15s sound great but I photo'd a wedding last fall where the DJ had them...OMG, the worst sounding guy I heard last year and one of the worst i've ever heard.
Agreed - I know people that get new gear every year. Why? Technology hasn't changed THAT much. To add, you just lost whatever your ROI was. Most people do not make their investments back in year 1. I still have my mirror ball and spots if I need them .. purchased in 1989. I have other fixtures I've collected along the way. Some LED, some not. All have a purpose.
Yes and no also - Jeff Beck may be able to make a crap guitar sound great .. but imagine how much better it is on a great quality guitar. Do you think Jeff Beck would drop his rate on a crap guitar?
Like you, I also know people that have been crafting their skills for years .. and have not gone far.
664 lbs. for the 4 of them in the van as well as all the other stuff (Tops, amps, source rack, computer, backups cables, lights when needed, etc. but it's a fun hobby ). Thank God for the available help I have access to
). Thank God for the available help I have access to 
As much as I love the power of those ls801 subs, I'm starting to see Wes' point that they're too much for 90% of the gigs we typically work. I pulled out double subs this past weekend, because it was a prom, but that 3k room I worked can be covered with lots of headroom to spare with a single unit. I know some here will poo-poo it but here lately I'm setting up a single sub with both tops mounted via a Y-connect and fanned left/right. I've really started to think about picking up maybe a single 15" powered unit or maybe a Ksub.