To Haze, or Not To Haze... That is the question?

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BigDon

New DJ
Jan 12, 2007
241
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55
Munster, IN
www.xl-entertainment.com
OK,

So I have all these groovy new DMX lights I have bought and been programming the crap out of. Everything looks great. Now I want to bring it all to life!.... I know all about foggers and how they work (I own like 6 different ones) and how the density of the output trips smoke detectors yada, yada, yada... I have done my homework on how hazers work as well, got all that down pat. I love the fact that the Hazer doesn't spew out smelly thick, nasty fog! Some of the venues around here will definitely not allow foggers, trying to pitch the Hazers to the hall managers as an alternative for my clients that are Pony'ing up the dough for the full light show.

So, for those of you who own Hazers, from your real life experience with these things, am I looking at the same issues as with the fogger? I know the particulate matter is much less dense but once again, if used conservatively and just to Haze in front of the lights to accentuate the beams, have any of you cats had problems (tripping smoke detectors, fire alarms, etc?) Or am I just spinning my wheels and should I save my $500?...

Everything I have read says I will encounter the same issues... what is your experience?
 
I have witnessed an event I roadied where the guy set off a particle detector directly above him. Luckily the public school principal was forgiving, could have been bad. I DJed an event in october, was the first DJ to use a hazer machine since 3 years at this venue (holiday inn), they actually covered all the particle detectors in the room with tape, and even those outside of the convention hall, didn't have a problem the entire night.

Big Don, and btw love the new avatar lol... If you are able to distinguish between particle detectors which are different from heat detectors you'll be fine in most cases if the room has the absent. A heat detector looks like a saucer and has a metal plunger looking thermometer on the bottom.

BTW, I have to manage firealarms at the place I work at, and on occasion troubleshoot for the high school I attend, administrator doesn't even know how to work it lol. So I've been around the block a few times when it comes to fire alarms.
 
Don, I had foggers for years but only used them for block parties. When I went DMX last spring I picked up the $200 Chauvet Hazer and have been happy. I've used it at a few halls so far, (catering, firehouse, VFW) with no issues.

The trick is to make as little output as possible. You won't even be able to SEE the haze at all when the lights are on. Seriously. You only notice when the lights go out and YOUR lights are going.
 
YourBasicDJ said:
Don, I had foggers for years but only used them for block parties. When I went DMX last spring I picked up the $200 Chauvet Hazer and have been happy. I've used it at a few halls so far, (catering, firehouse, VFW) with no issues.

The trick is to make as little output as possible. You won't even be able to SEE the haze at all when the lights are on. Seriously. You only notice when the lights go out and YOUR lights are going.
Click to expand...

Tiz' actually the hazer I was thinking about getting (Chauvet Ultimate Haze). That or the Antari Hazer... is about twice as much, have to dig into why????. Not looking to fill the room, just catch the beams by the dance floor.. Those foggers do come in handy at Halloween time though, don't they? :sqrolleyes:
 
Don, when running the hazer you set it so that it looks as if NOTHING is coming out. Trust me though, there is haze coming out that will be visible later.

I actually did this for a Halloween pary at my house. I had the hazer going all night and my house got VERY smokey. I did cover up the fire alarms just in case.
 
You have a better chance with Hazers, but to me, if someone at the venue says something like "you don't use smoke do you?" Doesn't matter what I have, I wont use it. If you take the chance and something happens, or even if it doesn't and they see the beams and figure somethings up,,, you're pow, done,,,
 
I always ask the boss...

That way, you're covered and he/she knows why the detectors went off.

I've used the hazer in a room with smoke detectors and never had them go off... but I'd still use it sparingly. It takes a lot more haze to set them off, but it can be done.
 
Tyrone Blue said:
That way, you're covered and he/she knows why the detectors went off.

I've used the hazer in a room with smoke detectors and never had them go off... but I'd still use it sparingly. It takes a lot more haze to set them off, but it can be done.
Click to expand...

... without a doubt, I would never circumvent the Hall Managers and or Clients wishes. Just trying to figure out if I should keep the money or go for it... so far I'm thinkin go for it and try it out.
 
When I use lighting that uses fog/haze, I attach a rider to the contract that the client has the venue management sign off on in order for me to even bring the lighting equipment. That way the venue management knows about the fog/haze and I have it in writing they said it was okay just in case something goes wrong, and I know I can give the client a light show that will look right because I KNOW it's okay for me to fog or haze before I get there.:sqwink:
 
fog, haze, its all particulate and any normal up to date fire detector will be vulnerable to trip. Unless, of course, you cover the detector illegally....not that I know....

Fog although dense, usually dissapates before tripping alarms on the opposite side of the room.

Haze, though less dense, usually can trip an alarm on the other side of the room. Don't be fooled by less density. Its actually more likely to cause problems....
 
Here's what I know...

What Jeremiah said is correct. The particles coming from a fog machine are more prone to set off a detector quicker due to the size of the particles. And, since they dissipate quicker, a detector on the other side of the room is less susceptible to going off.

I have a LeMaitre Hazer that I've used in school gymnasiums. It takes 15 to 20 minutes to fill up the gym and the particles stay in the air MUCH longer than a fogger. They are harder to see until you put a light beam through it.

Since these particles hang in the air longer, there is the danger of setting off a detector on the other side of the room if you have the hazer "projecting" the entire time.

Both machines have their own pros and cons. I now use a fogger in my club gig so I don't smoke out the customers in the back of the club. I can "sorta" control the smoke to hang closer to the dance floor by quickly pushing the button for only a moment every few minutes. A hazer won't do that as well because the particles float all over.
 
I have been extremely pleased with the Pyro fogger. I hide it behind a facade in front of my other facade, if that makes sense, and it shoots straight up and settles right around my light rig where I need it. It puts out big time so I don't have to hit the remote very often, but it also dissipates rather quickly. When it does settle you get a perfect haze though.

The only places I've used it so far were venues with heat detectors, so it hasn't been a problem at all. If a venue does have particle sensors, I would be careful to only use it a good distance from the sensors, or have them turn them off during the show.

ALWAYS notify the local fire department and let them know what you are doing. They appreciate the heads up and it is a great CYA move.

I have had a lot more problems with hazers setting off alarms than foggers, as Tyrone mentioned. You just can't control it as well without a bunch of PITA fans placed around.
 
So for a school gymnasium... hazer or fogger? Assuming that it's got heat sensors only, I would presume a hazer?

I'm in the market for one or the other, and I can't see using either much/at all at weddings, birfdays, etc... mainly at schools.
 
awdj....

Heat sensor....hmmm...I think most are particulate, but I'm no expert.

Haze all the way if you can afford.
Reason being, most people don't really care too much for fog. I use a fog because its all I can afford and my hazer is broken. But I aim it across the lighting and try not to directly shoot it at the crowd. Unless they are little kids....

Fog is an effect.
Haze is a tool for Intell lighting.

If I could get a hazer...
get one that is quiet and don't go cheap if you can. They are typically quieter than fog too.

Here's a few I would like to own.

Antari HZ-400

Neutron XS Hazer

CITCFX.com has some nice products, but I'm not sure about price on them.
http://www.citcfx.com/products/haze_machines.htm

there are also your typical Chauvet and AMDJ stuff that probably can get the job done for cheaper. They are oil based. Some of the higher end hazers I listed claim they don't use glycol or oil and are water based. This may help the fire alarm situation, but I'm not 100% on that.

If I had my choice, I would go with citc.....but I'm partial to their bubble monster....

hope this helps...
 
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