so you really only need music for the dance floor can't you keep feeding the line out to the in house system through a secondary mixer or something so everyone can still hear what is going on and not have to overwhelm the people on the dance floor
Using house sound
- Thread starter rickryan.com
- Start date
The venue manager won't let me use the Overhead speakers to supplement the sound in the entire room during dancing. They are afraid that some DJ may blow their speakers. That was my original plan--play the dance floor music to suit the dancers. Use the overhead sound system to supplement the entire room sound when dancing begins. . I may revisit this issue with the manager and event coordinator. I have worked several gigs with the event coordinator who will be on duty that night. Perhaps I can sway her to help me out by allowing the overhead to be use during dancing...but a reasonably low level. I might be able to sneak over and plug the Zone XLR into the wall unit once everyone begins to clear for dancing. At most military events that I've played, guests generally don't stay long once the planned program has ended.
I don't need another mixer as there is a Zone feature on my Pioneer DJM-5000 with its own volume Level control.
Last edited:
Could you change location of the DJ system to accomodate this new area? I might suggest running another top closer to the new area as well. This allows you to run at a lower volume - and when you need to pump it up, you could turn these remote speakers off. You could always try wireless transmitter / receivers vice running 160' of cable.
I also wonder if you can use the 'Zone' at a different level than your main out - play through your speakers louder than the house drivers. Once dance time begins, you could fade out the 'Zone' so its only your speakers on.
I also wonder if you can use the 'Zone' at a different level than your main out - play through your speakers louder than the house drivers. Once dance time begins, you could fade out the 'Zone' so its only your speakers on.
I forgot to mention there was a hum coming from the overhead speakers when the Zone XLR was connected to the wall plate. When I turned the volume Level control to "0" (no gain), the hum (white noise) disappeared. I will say that the distance from the mixer Zone XLR output (right channel) to the venue wall unit is over 34-ft. I didn't have a 50'ft XLR with me so I connected another XLR cable to extend the length to the wall plate. Would that have caused the hum, two different XLR cables connected? I have a "Monster Pro 1000" power supply that is connected to a wall outlet. Everything I use, powered speakers, mixer, etc. are connected to this power supply.
The Zone attenuation level can be set at 0db, -6db or -12db. I have the Master output attenuation level set at -6db. Is that a proper setting? If so, then should the Zone attenuation be set to the same setting (-6db)?
The Zone attenuation level can be set at 0db, -6db or -12db. I have the Master output attenuation level set at -6db. Is that a proper setting? If so, then should the Zone attenuation be set to the same setting (-6db)?
The 'hum' could also be caused by the power circuit you're connected to vs the power circuit that the house system is connected to - this is why all audio pieces of your system should be powered from the same circuit.
Tig...that's the plan. However, the military MC/Host will be using the venue wireless (from podium) to make announcements, too. I can't be connected to the house system when it is being used. That's why I'm thinking of plugging the Zone XLR back into the wall unit when the formalities are finished and dancing begins.
To complicate matters just a bit, I'm a long way from the head table. The military MC will need the overhead system once the social hour has ended; I will be disconnected, manually, from the wall plate and the house wireless mic unit will be plugged in to the wall plate. Neither the DJ Zone or House Mic can be plugged in at the same time to the wall plate. Here's where it gets dicey! I need to play a drum roll for the Posting of the Colors which is at the opposite end of the ballroom (the last 1/3 section). I can't plug into the wall unit because it is in use by the MC. Immediately after the Colors have been posted, I have to play the National Anthem and a soldier is going to sing it. She have two options as I see it.
Use the MC microphone and hope she can hear the music coming from the other end of the room where I am located or sing the National Anthem from where I a located with my wireless microphone. Well, there is a third option...she could sing it without music.
It's too bad rehearsal isn't the day before the military ball so these issues could be ironed out.
All of MY gear is connected to one circuit. I may try running a 50'ft power cord from the same outlet that the House Unit is plugged into to my Monster 1000 power supply. I don't know how much draw the house system is using. Knowing that I may need to run MY system a bit hotter than normal, it could possibly pop the circuit breaker. I may have time to check this out when I setup my equipment the day of the event.
I understand that all of your gear is connected to the same circuit - in this case, I was specifically referring to the power sources for each system.
Option 3 - wireless mic(s) from your system and you plugged into the house system?
Unfortunately, I only have a wireless hand held and a Lav body pack.
A Direct Box between the Zone outputs and the wall plug will provide circuit isolation (usually by transformer). It still may make sense to insert one in the output path. If they need to make announcements and speeches .. can't they use your mic and have you manage the audio going to the house system as well as the main PA?
Steve, problem all along is that the venue won't allow the House System (overhead) speakers to be used by DJ's...except in this instance they will allow me to plug into the wall plate for Social Hour music.
Venue has provided House wireless for Client use during. Unfortunately, podium is at the opposite end of the room from DJ setup. If the head table was at my end of the room, I would allow them to use my wireless and I could use the gooseneck. I don't know if my wireless will work at that distance. Assuming that my wireless reaches that distance (while I am connected to the House system via my mixer's Zone controls), it is possible to use the Zone selector switch to Master for Client's use. Only issue would be to make sure that the Microphone Line 1 (Master MC use only) is set for correct volume for use with the venue's overhead system. I could switch between mixer's MIC 1 (DJ wireless) and MIC 2 (DJ gooseneck) when necessary by switching the Zone selector switch to Zone MIC (Sound from mixer MIC 1 or MIC 2--turn on by pressing buttons on microphone section.
Having explained how to use DJ wireless, above, it appears that I may still need a Direct Box. Guitar center is in the town where I live. I'll provide link. Will the $29.99 box do the job? Be back in a minute with the link. Direct Boxes | Guitar Center It is an XLR box.
The hum will disappear if you use the $29 passive direct box and patch the unbalanced output (RCA L+R) through it to get a mic level signal on XLR. The distance from the DI to the wall plate will not matter. You can run over 200ft with the XLR to the wall plate.
The hum is because you are overloading the input by going direct from your zone output- you are trying to feed a mic input with a line signal. It does not matter that they are both XLR - they are not compatible. Your zone output is not the right place to take the signal from given your situation and -12db attenuation on your zone output is not enough - you need more like -30db or MORE depending on the mixer.
The hum is not from a ground loop, because if it were it the hum would not vary with the volume controls. A DI will also break ground loops anyway through it's transformer or the ground lift switch.
This is all you need: Whirlwind IMP2 - Direct Box
Last edited:
Let me summarize:
Proformance: First of all thank you all for the information. You may have already determined from my posts that I lack technical knowledge (Sound 101). Quick explanation about the venue and my issue.
Venue will allow me to connect to their room speakers by plugging into their wall plate...for cocktail/social hour music ONLY. Did sound check with my current system (Evox 8) and Road Case that contains the Pioneer 5000 DJ mixer. Since my mixer has Zone capability (XLR only outputs), it made sense to me to output cocktail music to the Zone feature because I could control the volume with the Zone Level feature. That way I could control the volume that goes to the Venue's overhead speakers so I wouldn't accidentally blow their speakers.
Venue manager specifically stated that I could not use it when dancing began. Obviously, she didn't understand that the Zone Volume can be controlled independently of the Master volume on my mixer, but that's another issue.
Because the room is larger than anticipated for my current sound system it wouldn't be feasible to use my Wireless handheld for their MC duties. MC is located at opposite end of the room from me and that is where the Head table (military dignitaries) will be seated. It was brought up that perhaps the MC could use my wireless IF it were tied into the Venue overhead speakers. This is where I am technically challenged, so-to-speak.
Please take a look at the Pioneer DJM 5000 mixer manual and let me know how the mixer can be used with the Direct Box. I am using XLR Master outputs to my sound system, which leaves XLR Zone outputs available. As an aside to all of this, what attenuation should the mixer be set at (Master XLR)? DJM-5000 - Professional Standard Mobile DJ Mixer
Need guidance on the Direct Box Passive in regard to your comment about RCA connections.
Thanks again everyone.
Proformance: First of all thank you all for the information. You may have already determined from my posts that I lack technical knowledge (Sound 101). Quick explanation about the venue and my issue.
Venue will allow me to connect to their room speakers by plugging into their wall plate...for cocktail/social hour music ONLY. Did sound check with my current system (Evox 8) and Road Case that contains the Pioneer 5000 DJ mixer. Since my mixer has Zone capability (XLR only outputs), it made sense to me to output cocktail music to the Zone feature because I could control the volume with the Zone Level feature. That way I could control the volume that goes to the Venue's overhead speakers so I wouldn't accidentally blow their speakers.
Venue manager specifically stated that I could not use it when dancing began. Obviously, she didn't understand that the Zone Volume can be controlled independently of the Master volume on my mixer, but that's another issue.
Because the room is larger than anticipated for my current sound system it wouldn't be feasible to use my Wireless handheld for their MC duties. MC is located at opposite end of the room from me and that is where the Head table (military dignitaries) will be seated. It was brought up that perhaps the MC could use my wireless IF it were tied into the Venue overhead speakers. This is where I am technically challenged, so-to-speak.
Please take a look at the Pioneer DJM 5000 mixer manual and let me know how the mixer can be used with the Direct Box. I am using XLR Master outputs to my sound system, which leaves XLR Zone outputs available. As an aside to all of this, what attenuation should the mixer be set at (Master XLR)? DJM-5000 - Professional Standard Mobile DJ Mixer
Need guidance on the Direct Box Passive in regard to your comment about RCA connections.
Thanks again everyone.
Your mixer design presumes those outputs will be feeding an amplifier's line input. You are trying to feed a microphone input.
The venue is correct, and you would not be the first person to attempt using a zone output. Others have likely damaged their system this way in the past with dance music levels. There is a correct way to do this however, you are not prepared to do it. I suggest you use the DI and only for cocktail hour music and to mix mics feeding into your Pioneer 5o00.
I don't know the quality of your mic. Very inexpensive mics have a reliable range of 30-50ft line of sight. DJ class mics (Shure PG, etc) have an effective range of about 80-100ft depending on other RF conditions. Very high quality mics (concert class) can have a range of about 300ft.
In any case, you can use an inexpensive mic by placing the receiver at the stage and running an XLR line all the way around the room to your Pioneer mixer. You can ONLY do this with a balanced XLR output from the mic receiver. It will not work if the receiver only provides a 1/4" unbalanced output.
You also have a parallel set of unbalanced H-Z Main Outputs in the form of two RCA jacks marked as: "Master 2" Identified in your manual as connector set #14 What appears on these jacks will be identical to your XLR Main Outs.
Use a stereo RCA -1/4" patch cable to connect to the passive DI box, and from the passive DI run a balanced XLR mic cable to the wall plate. Everything from your mixer will now feed the house system as well. Do not make or break any of these connections while there is an active signal or open channel. Have them turn the house input down - start some music and begin moving your levels to about 70% (your typical max) and then have them adjust their volume to the level they will allow. If the signal is too loud for them use the attenuation switch on the DI (if present) to decrease the gain, otherwise lower your master volume. This will effectively set the top limit of what you can feed them.
Notes: You may notice some attenuation of your output level when both the L+R of the patch cable is connected to the DI. This is okay. If the attenuation is so dramatic, or it creates noise - use only one channel (Left or Right) to feed the DI. Since what you primarily want is the mics - this partial mono will not matter because the mics are mixed equally across both stereo channels in a DJ mixer.
When you are done with the feed - reduce ALL your levels. Remove the XLR from the wall plate first, and then remove the DI from your mixer.
In the future, you could use one of these: Balanced Line to Mic level converter attenuator pad. XLR with a direct line out from your XLR zone output to feed the house wall plate mic input. It has a -40db pad circuit to drop your line level to a more modest mic level.
Based on how he described the noise he's around 30 or 40 db too hot and the wall plate is fully balanced.
If the hotel was about 25 years older it could be both, and then some. Standards have changed but, there is still old stuff and old wiring out there.