Venting...

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If you do a gig a week and it takes you 60 hours to prep for that gig then you must be working 70, 80 hours a week - there are other things involved in running a business that take time.

Doesn't seem like an effecient way to run a business.

I'm sure we spend more time than we count - for example I did a bridal show on sunday..that is time spent getting gigs, but maybe not assignable to any of the 4 I booked (another photobooth confirmed today).

Now I spent time today putting them in my calendar, confirming some details, sending out contracts.
I'll have a phone call or two to get their songs and such ready. 8-9 hours on the wedding day. An hour to prep their songs, maybe 2. so I can see 10-14 hours.

but 5 TIMES that amount? No way.
 
Small event, I agree. Add in a bundled service such as photography, and your time may be close to double, if not more.

Large event, the larger and more orchestration there is, the more time you will sink into it.
 
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ittigger said:
How does your ready inclusion of lawyers establish credibility on the issue for a DJ? Unless you have evidence that everyone with the label 'lawyer' is a contract 'expert', then you're making assumptions, generalizations and have no argument. For the record, I never dismissed all lawyers. I simply stated that the term 'lawyer' does not make someone a contract 'expert'.
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It takes a comprehensive knowledge of contract law just to pass the bar exam.
I live in the real world, not a fantasy.
What's real is that ANY lawyer knows more about contract law than you do.
 
Proformance said:
Every client I encountered in the last 30 years also had a definite self-interest.
If self-interest disqualifies advice then why would your position be any less questionable?

The better trained and informed adviser was dismissed, negotiation barred, and the sale was lost. That part shines bright.
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And a PITA gig was avoided. Goal achieved. It was a good call on my part and I can live with that.
 
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ittigger said:
In RR's shoes, a client called, established she was a lawyer - and then went on to state that she would not sign unless he changed his contract to what she wanted. IMO, many (here as well as normal businesses) in those same shoes may have balked as well. Why - because most people would go on the defensive as to why / what someone wanted changed to tilt in their favor. Regardless of whether the contract was right or wrong in it's current state, this would have put many on the offense in that moment.

Had RR heard it the same way we did, he may have chimed in the exact same way as we have - to consider the changes. It's easy to look at something from the outside, after the fact, and say what we would have done. It's easy to analyze what we would have / could have / should do in the future with this scenario, especially considering that we're not attached to this business and that we had time to talk and think it over. RR had no time .. and if he did, he certainly didn't have the time that we did nor the outside view that we had.
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The part that Bob keeps passing by is the additional conversation I'd already had with this prospect. Based on previous emails, she had already moved into the PITA category. The final email, wanting to re-write the contract told me to run hard, run deep. Perhaps her points were valid, but I wanted no part of her event, even at 5X the price, it would've been misery. I made a good call, Bob's just too stubborn to consider anything besides his own right to keep arguing. He sees an opportunity to call someone else incompetent and he just goes crazy.
 
Proformance said:
It takes a comprehensive knowledge of contract law just to pass the bar exam.
I live in the real world, not a fantasy.
What's real is that ANY lawyer knows more about contract law than you do.
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This is not about me .. but thanks for your concern. That said, unless you've taken the bar, or have performed in any of the various lawyer positions, I don't think you're qualified to answer that. BTW, you're generalizing again. I know many lawyers that will not even take a look at contracts because it's not in their lane. Could a constitutional lawyer help you with a car accident - sure, they 'could', they are a 'lawyer'. Will they be helping you in any beneficial way? Extremely doubtful. Can that same constitutional lawyer provide you with proper advice as to what should or should not be in your contract? Highly doubtful. Because someone is Microsoft Certified, does that make them experts at everything with Microsoft? Can an ophthalmologist fix a broken foot .. I'm sure they 'could'. Would you want them to? I doubt it. Jacob's certified in the medical field, I wonder how quick you would sign up for him to give you a colonoscopy. Lawyers dissect and rearrange things all the time to twist them into a way that is beneficial to them. I wonder what would have happened if OJ hired a telecom lawyer. Hmmmmmmmmm.
 
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rickryan.com said:
The part that Bob keeps passing by is the additional conversation I'd already had with this prospect. Based on previous emails, she had already moved into the PITA category. The final email, wanting to re-write the contract told me to run hard, run deep. Perhaps her points were valid, but I wanted no part of her event, even at 5X the price, it would've been misery. I made a good call, Bob's just too stubborn to consider anything besides his own right to keep arguing. He sees an opportunity to call someone else incompetent and he just goes crazy.
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I don't disagree with you. I also agree with the others that you should at least consider and think about some things that have been pointed out in this thread.
 
Avg wedding all in is 20 man-hours, at most 24 if they do eSession, bigger album, etc.

You need to know what you can charge per hour and make the work fit that. If you can get $150/hour then great, if you can only get $80 then to make teh same money (per hour/profitability/roi) you need to be twice as efficient.

It doesn't take hours to put the 10 songs they want for entrance/first dance, etc into a playlist, even if you have to go fetch the songs. If it is taking you that long then you need to evaluate why that is.

Now if you're previewing a venue, meeting the client there, then that adds time to your prep work - not an issue if you get paid for it,and at $150/hour your probably are being compensated - but then you're selling a premium service and getting a premium price - with photography my experience as been the net per hour is the same. You just need fewer gigs to make the same annual salary.

If you do custom lighting once you have 10 or 15 'shows' setup you shouldn't have to spend more than 5 minutes to pick one and google the RGB for the 'blush' or 'persimmon' and put that into the DMX and be good to go. I do that as part of my setup at the event itself it takes so little time.

ittigger said:
Small event, I agree. Add in a bundled service such as photography, and your time may be close to double, if not more.

Large event, the larger and more orchestration there is, the more time you will sink into it.
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anyone that wants to start changing my contract...is not my customer. MY business MY rules. they exist based on MY experience. You want different rules? No problem- lots of others out there.

I've had that happen often with photo customers - I shoot and deliver what is MY product - some want 'all the files' or the 'raw files too' - no, sorry I don't do that. Never have and never will.

Anymore than Burger King will sell you a frosty or big mac - you want that you go someplace else that offers it.

not a big deal, no need to get into a pissing match.
 
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IceBurghDJ said:
anyone that wants to start changing my contract...is not my customer. MY business MY rules. they exist based on MY experience. You want different rules? No problem- lots of others out there.
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You have every right, at least for now, to operate in that wholly ill informed manner.

P.S. Your B.K. analogy is completely flawed.
 
ittigger said:
This is not about me .. but thanks for your concern. That said, unless you've taken the bar, or have performed in any of the various lawyer positions, I don't think you're qualified to answer that.
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It absolutely is about you. I have not one doubt that even most Paralegals know more about contracts than you do yet, you're
black and white thinking and disqualifying perfectionism leaves you absolutely blind.
 
rickryan.com said:
The part that Bob keeps passing by is the additional conversation I'd already had with this prospect. Based on previous emails, she had already moved into the PITA category. The final email, wanting to re-write the contract told me to run hard, run deep. Perhaps her points were valid, but I wanted no part of her event, even at 5X the price, it would've been misery. I made a good call, Bob's just too stubborn to consider anything besides his own right to keep arguing. He sees an opportunity to call someone else incompetent and he just goes crazy.
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This thread is about why certain customer's after displaying a peak interest suddenly choose to go in another direction after receiving detailed quotes or value propositions. The response from you're lawyer client highlights one of those reasons.

I am truly disappointed by your response. Not only do I find it unprofessional, I find it incredibly unreasonable. I am happy that I have learned these things about you and your business before making you a part of one of the most important events in my life.
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Proformance said:
It absolutely is about you. I have not one doubt that even most Paralegals know more about contracts than you do yet, you're
black and white thinking and disqualifying perfectionism leaves you absolutely blind.
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Why are you so hard on people here? Take it easy. Breath in then out.
 
Proformance said:
This thread is about why certain customer's after displaying a peak interest suddenly choose to go in another direction after receiving detailed quotes or value propositions. The response from you're lawyer client highlights one of those reasons.
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She found me un-reasonable and unprofessional for one reason; I wouldn't play legal ball with her. She took her parting shot and I didn't reply. She's welcome to her opinion. From my perspective, I made a judgement call that she was going to be a PITA and that I had better things to do with my time. Her parting shot only stands as evidence that I was correct. It's really disturbing that you can't seem to let it go and insist on
regurgitating the issue, time and again. You didn't win your point the first 100 times. Why do you think you'll win it the 101st time?
 
rickryan.com said:
... It's really disturbing that you can't seem to let it go and insist on regurgitating the issue, time and again. You didn't win your point the first 100 times. Why do you think you'll win it the 101st time?
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The answer to your question is the same as the answer to Mix's question!! [emoji2]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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rickryan.com said:
She found me un-reasonable and unprofessional for one reason; I wouldn't play legal ball with her. She took her parting shot and I didn't reply. She's welcome to her opinion. From my perspective, I made a judgement call that she was going to be a PITA and that I had better things to do with my time. Her parting shot only stands as evidence that I was correct. It's really disturbing that you can't seem to let it go and insist on
regurgitating the issue, time and again. You didn't win your point the first 100 times. Why do you think you'll win it the 101st time?
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"Win" is your word choice not mine. It's also instructive and even the lawyer cited this trait in her response to you.

You solicited opinions, I posted one, and continue to stand by it.
You can stalk and challenge that opinion in every thread you can find me, it will not change.
I don't agree with you, period.
Such is you're obsession with "winning."
 
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Proformance said:
"Win" is your word choice not mine. It's also instructive and even the lawyer cited this trait in her response to you.

You solicited opinions, I posted one, and continue to stand by it.
You can stalk and challenge that opinion in every thread you can find me, it will not change.
I don't agree with you, period.
Such is you're obsession with "winning."
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"Stalk"? Are you serious? You're the one who keeps dragging the same discussion into multiple threads. If anyone's stalking, it would be you.
 
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