Are any of the so-called lead services really "worth" anything?

Mike, you've described yourself as cynical by nature, so you'll probably feel that way about most paid advertising opportunities. You'll find guys on this board that use Thumbtack and others with success, others that think it is a waste. Personally, I advertise with both The Knot and WeddingWire... others think that is a waste. The truth is that you have to get your business in front of buyers in some form or another to generate new business. And you can either do that by pounding the pavement and investing your time to find leads and develop relationships. Or, you can spend some money somewhere. But there won't ever be a guarantee of it working.

As a skeptic, your tendency will probably be to start very small, and if it doesn't work immediately to bail on it. Having realistic expectations about any ad spend is important. Very rarely can you just spend $20 and come out with a gig. If you can, great... but if you start with a new channel, determine a realistic amount you can invest into developing it further.

I feel about the same - I like to see results and most (if not all) marketing salespeople of all kinds promise all sorts of results, well, hint at, but few can deliver.

You can figure things a couple of ways- if you spend $3000 on ALL marketing and get 30 gigs a gig costs you $100.
So using that metric if you do a $300 bridal show and book 2 gigs, not great, 4 or more great!

But that's only one way to measure - you can measure all contacts/calls/emails you get - and see what an 'interaction' costs you. Maybe you talk to 5 brides to meet 3 to book 2. So if the $100 figure above is used a 'contact' costs you $40. and you need to contact 2.5 people to book a gig.

So if that holds up...and i've not kept sufficient records to know - then you can easily do the math to know if you want 60 gigs what you have to do, have to spend.

this is usually how marketing is sold - impressions, or eyes on it or the like. If you get say, 2% contacts out of it then you can again do the match and see if its worth it.

From the accounting side marketing is budgeted as a percentage of sales - so if you do 40k (or want to do) in sales than you need to spend 8-10% of that on marketing.

What's more difficult is we can do social media and don't get a bill for the labor like say, nabisco does since they pay employees to do social media. But id DOES have a cost.

MagicMoments says he got 529 engagements and 112 contacts and 30 gigs off the Knot. Is that high or low? Why did he only book 1/4 of them? Seems like a low closing rate to me, but i know he's higher prices and busier so will have filled dates on some of those inquiries.

If the knot costs 2400 a year and you get 30 gits, that would work out to $80/ gig - pretty good deal, compared to the $100 figure above.

What's harder to figure (or pay for) is say, thumbtack where a contact costs $7. So you pay and hope for the best. Now if you have the metric of $100/gig you can, in good conscience, contact 15 prospects for every booking. I'll have to check my results (they have the info!) and see how that works out.

But if I want 10% max marketing then with my prices I only want to spend $60/gig. However, some will be WOM or other freebie (to acquire the booking) and others will no doubt cost more. NOW you need records to decide where best to spend your efforts in the future.

That's not a business plan...it's a plan for failing.

You need to start with a market survey - what is selling and at what price. Not what you WANT it to be.
then you need to figure out what you can bring that is different, better, unique.
Now, what gear will that take? CAN you get it in bits and pieces or not? (one speaker.. per month..no.)

Now you have a product, production (gear, music) and a price point - so on to marketing plan.

If in your research it shows that it costs $50 to get a gig, and you want 10 gigs then maybe you can budget $500. BUT it depends..you have no WOM, no reviews, no name recognition - you will spend more, or take longer, or get fewer gigs because of that. YOu have to factor that in to your plan.

So when it's all done you figure you need $7k in gear and 3k in marketing - $10,000 puts you in business. that's CHEAP. You can uber with out a $25,000 car. OMG, 10k! you say? Well, do you believe you'll succeed or not? If not..don't waste your time and money. If you DO believe you'll success then go get a low or no interest credit card and do it right.

You're investing in a BUSINESS, and in yourself. Figure the 7k will take 3 years to pay off, so $200 a month. the marketing is onging. If you can't get ennough gigs to cover the $200 monthly nut then well, it's not a business but a dream.

You need to treat the DJ business as, well a BUSINESS. Separate money, bank accounts, keep books, etc.

YOu need to be willing and ABLE to take risks - I'm doing a bridal show tomorrow, cost was $325 plus a door prize, plus I"m paying my assistant to be there, plus handouts (this time I printed them, but needed toner and 'fancy' paper - $80). No clue if I'll book a dime's worth of business. Risk.

And WTH is your 'out the door' cost anyway?

I did a school dance tonight..3 hours plus about 3 hours of setup/teardown and 1/2 hour driving and some prep time. I own all the gear and lights..had gas in the tank. Got $240. Doing a MS dance at the same place next month, a whopping $190 for those 3 hours. ZERO marketing costs. Hope to get the prom now. That will pay more! Maybe I can make a deal for my photobooth too...

My 'stay home' cost is no more than my 'out the door cost'.

Mike Burke said:

I don't even have $100 to my name right now. Once I can start making something I can bank most of it but I will likely be investing it on overhead. The lead service for right now, if I decide to use one, is going to be Eventective. Thumbtack was limited to $500 gigs only and that is less than my out the door costs, because I start at $600 and go up with all of my add ons. Not everyone will want my add ons like lights and customized sound, projectors , photo booth, etc; I am looking into facebook ads, I will try it one more time this time without a resaler. I was just asking because there ARE things that to me out of my range. I just can't go out and buy everything and use everything and do it all at once. Most of my DJ related expenses are being paid for from my day job right now, a whole different source. I need to get that fixed so that my DJ money and my living money are two different things. Fixing it is always easier said than done.

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I booked my brother on a internet lead wedding for April 22nd. $750 booking. The Agency booked me on a Mitzvah. The client was referred to the agency from another agency client that had used me for their daughter's mitzvah. $1,900 booking. I'm pulling out all the stops on it for that $1.900. I don't want to do mitzvahs any more really, BUT at the high pay, I can't say no.

I book internet inquiries all the time...If it isn't a referral from the agency, then it's usually via the internet. My own referrals came 3rd in 2016. Looking at my 2017 Calendar. I have one direct referral so far, 1 referred client through the agency, and the rest were all from the internet.

I actually booked my brother on a Gig Masters wedding last summer...$1,600 for 6 hours. The commission to me on that wedding paid the membership fee for the year on GM.

Mike Burke said:

I don't even have $100 to my name right now. Once I can start making something I can bank most of it but I will likely be investing it on overhead. The lead service for right now, if I decide to use one, is going to be Eventective. Thumbtack was limited to $500 gigs only and that is less than my out the door costs, because I start at $600 and go up with all of my add ons. Not everyone will want my add ons like lights and customized sound, projectors , photo booth, etc; I am looking into facebook ads, I will try it one more time this time without a resaler. I was just asking because there ARE things that to me out of my range. I just can't go out and buy everything and use everything and do it all at once. Most of my DJ related expenses are being paid for from my day job right now, a whole different source. I need to get that fixed so that my DJ money and my living money are two different things. Fixing it is always easier said than done.

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In my opinion, you need to be out working. Contact Every Dj company , stop in at bars.

I would not spend any money on ads or equipment at this point. Spend some that you start making at bar gigs or give you got from other dj companies.

He can't do bar gigs he said cost him $500 to leave the house he is gonna loose money on a bar gig if his costs are that high

If I had $100 to my name, I'd be doing shows like crazy at a discount price.

I'd be telling other dj Companies that I'd offer to do shows at as discounted rate to show what I can do. Offer to be a roadie

I don't do bars anymore. But if I needed the money, I'd be back doing bars in a heart beat.

Mike Burke said:

depending on traffic its Washington DC suburbia so you know traffic is usually pretty horrid anyway.

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I certainly know that pain... where do you commute to?

Mike,
Some Djs feel like anyone charging less than them is a low baller. Anyone charging more is a gouging. Only they can charge the right price. They believe if they can get others to raise their price, it will be better for them. I don't agree with that. My success will be based on what I do, not by what other Djs in my area do. Sure, there may be a gig here or there I lost to someone less expensive, and I may have gotten a gig because I'm less than someone else, but by and large, people book us because they like us and/or they were referred to us. If everyone raised their prices, someone new will gladly take the low end business.

I do believe each dj will be better off if they are able to charge more. But they need to be in demand to be able to do it. There was a thread on another board by someone trying to book gigs. He said he needs help booking gigs as he hasn't DJ'd in over a year. He said that he won't do a wedding for under $1400 because he respects other Djs and they told him that should be the minimum. They are not helping him.

Some Djs in your area will look at you as competition and won't network with you. Forget them. But some will. Some will realize that your success will have no impact on them. I've found it's much better to network with other Djs than compete with them. When I'm booked, I recommend good Djs. They recommend me. They call if something needs to be covered.

2 of my DJ's that I trained have gone on to start their own businesses. I network with them. They did not negatively impact my business at all. In fact they've helped it. They refer business to us.

Mike Burke said:

I'd be seen as a bottom feeder among other DJ's at that point and not compatible with other DJ's .

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Don't give another minute's thought to whether other DJs are perceiving you as a bottom-feeder. The first couple of years I was in business, I joined the ADJA. At that point, I thought $300-$400 was great money (I'd been a musician to that point) and got shunned by several of the old-timers as a bottom-feeder. A few months later, I had dinner with the owner of the largest multi-op in the area. At one point he asked me "How many gigs did you do last year?" When I told him 45 his mouth flew open and his eyes went wide. He told me that most of those guys who had shunned me work about 15-18 per year. He said, "That would make you the top guy in the area." That gave me the confidence to forget their bad-mouthing and focus on what I was doing. My biz model has obviously changed but that $400/night is now somewhere around $2500/night. Piss on em. Focus on you. Good luck with it.

Yeah, a guy here does weddings very well for about $500. When asked why he doesn't charge more he says cause he's got to keep working. He does big movies, slideshows, uplighting, parties and school dances, big ones, college ones, works a bar one or two nights a week.

Rule one - work, get paid, get experience, get known.
Rule two - get better. be that on the mic, in sales, gear, etc.
Rule three - get enough marketing/business that you can raise rates.

Mike Burke said:

I used to be in ADJA and NAME . They are so expensive I couldn't afford them. Not their fault. I was among the founding members of the ADJA DC chapter once upon a lifetime ago back when they stopped hating each other and forging their identities. I like what they do, but didn't have the money to pay for them, which is why I have not renewed memberships. Right now all my money doesn't come from DJ ing it comes from my day job with the school system. School systems don't pay people that much.

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Mike, if I were in your boat and trying to scare up money, I'd be pounding craigslist with $400-$500 DJ ads. I don't like working for that money but if you're hungry that's a quick way to get gigs on the books. You can always start moving rates north once you're more in demand.