I thought I had an issue with the wireless mics.

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djtaso said:
Having had the unit and finding significant inconstancies in performance I can personally say that it is not a reliable unit......
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It's not a valid criticism of the product because it's based on YOUR performance, not the performance of the mic.

Not once in that story did you indicate making any advance frequency planning for that location. Also missing is what band you chose, and why - for example, which bands are occupied by local broadcasters? How many channels are available to use in the frequency band you chose, and how did you arrive at the selections you made?

The scan feature is convenient. It won't work however, if we aren't doing the basic homework that RF planning requires. Without a plan it could remain uncertain whether the BLX scan returned a truly best frequency, or merely timed out.

FYI: The Navy isn't the source of your BLX wireless mic issue; but it's a good excuse to use on the client. :) The QLXD is a different kind of wireless and it's very narrow footprint simply means you'll get lucky more often than not. Without proper planning though, it's only a matter of time until the QLXD too - is SOL.
 
Proformance said:
It's not a valid criticism of the product because it's based on YOUR performance, not the performance of the mic.

Not once in that story did you indicate making any advance frequency planning for that location. Also missing is what band you chose, and why - for example, which bands are occupied by local broadcasters? How many channels are available to use in the frequency band you chose, and how did you arrive at the selections you made?

The scan feature is convenient. It won't work however, if we aren't doing the basic homework that RF planning requires. Without a plan it could remain uncertain whether the BLX scan returned a truly best frequency, or merely timed out.

FYI: The Navy isn't the source of your BLX wireless mic issue; but it's a good excuse to use on the client. :) The QLXD is a different kind of wireless and it's very narrow footprint simply means you'll get lucky more often than not. Without proper planning though, it's only a matter of time until the QLXD too - is SOL.
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Here’s the thing, the typical consumer is not a wireless expert as you are. I’m very impressed with your knowledge and wish I knew more of the technicals behind the equipment I use… but as an everyday consumer Of a product, I expect an easy to use system that doesn’t require advanced troubleshooting to make it work in difficult areas. All I know is I spent an hour scanning and trying different frequencies. I tried a different mic and still was presented with the same issues… clearly it was the area providing more interference than normal that this system had difficulty with. Whether it was because of the military presence or something else, who knows. Did I do advanced frequency planning… no… just like I doubt anyone else here ever has for the typical everyday private event in a banquet hall. The everyday dj just goes and scans to find the best frequency and expects that it should work afterwards. Regardless of the difference in technicalities between the blx vs qlx… it is clear that the qlx is a much more user friendly/more reliable system with better results. Perhaps if I was an expert in wireless receivers and could get into the granular aspects of how to overcome troubling areas, I could’ve made the older mic systems work… but I’m ok with paying a few hundred more for a more user friendly experience and overall better performing system.
 
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Let me say this. A couple of times the transmitter fell on the floor and I thought that's why it wouldn't work. So I now have 3 H 11 transmitters. I have 2 wired mics and I will use one if need be. I just bought 4 50 feet XLR cables. That's my solution for now.
 
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By the way, Mix....
you don't need to spend a TON of money to get a good mic.
This is the one I have.
Has all the features, sounds great, and has lasted a long time.

Which brings up another good point.
Take care of your gear, treat it nice, keep it safe and protected....
and it will serve you well for many years.

EVR300.jpg
 
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Ausumm said:
By the way, Mix....
you don't need to spend a TON of money to get a good mic.
This is the one I have.
Has all the features, sounds great, and has lasted a long time.

Which brings up another good point.
Take care of your gear, treat it nice, keep it safe and protected....
and it will serve you well for many years.

View attachment 54435
Click to expand...
Here’s the thing with the one you recommended… there’s really no clear open channel on that model for where we are and where Mix primarily performs. He’d have to jump to the re-3 model to find a model/Channel to have open channels, specifically the 6M model as the 5h would have poor results. That re-3 model is double the price of what you mentioned... although lower priced than shure by far.

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On a side note... Proformance, the model that Mix has... the H11... has Zero available frequencies for where he performed last according to shures website. The H10 is the model he needs... which is weird because he said he had it from a previous party he did, so if he brought it he likely would have been fine for the party he just did. The downside is there are areas in jersey that neither the H10 or H11 have open channels (for example West Deptford, where I had issues).
 
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djtaso said:
Here’s the thing, the typical consumer is not a wireless expert ... and wish I knew more of the technicals behind the equipment I use… but as an everyday consumer Of a product, I expect an easy to use system that doesn’t require advanced troubleshooting to make it work in difficult areas.
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That is where the disconnect lies.
You are buying a professional product and expecting a novice consumer experience. These products come with FREE tools for professional users to resolve wireless issues before they happen and even before you buy the product.

I realize the "smart device" consumer trend and pro automation has made people lazy with respect to technology, but RF is very dynamic. You have to PLAN AHEAD because if you show up on site with a device in the wrong band there will be no solution, no fix for the lack of results. RF planning is like making a reservation at a hotel - only you pick the room, and how well you choose will determine if the room is empty when you get there.

The next time someone posts a thread asking: "What's the best wireless mic..." the answer should be: "The one you plan for."

There's a thread on here somewhere about how much or what constitutes a DJ as "professional." I would argue that line is crossed when the DJ takes full responsibility for the tools they expect to use and adopt the knowledge base customers expect professionals to have about their own equipment. Wirelss mics are THAT piece of gear that can easily make or break the impression of a DIY mobile DJ's technical competence. Not everyone expects the DJ to the guy incharge of mics. If we are however, it will matter a great deal that we get it right because it's not going to get any easier as the available spectrum continues to diminish
 
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Proformance said:
That is where the disconnect lies.
You are buying a professional product and expecting a novice consumer experience. These products come with FREE tools for professional users to resolve wireless issues before they happen and even before you buy the product.

I realize the "smart device" consumer trend and pro automation has made people lazy with respect to technology, but RF is very dynamic. You have to PLAN AHEAD because if you show up on site with a device in the wrong band there will be no solution, no fix for the lack of results. RF planning is like making a reservation at a hotel - only you pick the room, and how well you choose will determine if the room is empty when you get there.

The next time someone posts a thread asking: "What's the best wireless mic..." the answer should be: "The one you plan for."

There's a thread on here somewhere about how much or what constitutes a DJ as "professional." I would argue that line is crossed when the DJ takes full responsibility for the tools they expect to use and adopt the knowledge base customers expect professionals to have about their own equipment. Wirelss mics are THAT piece of gear that can easily make or break the impression of a DIY mobile DJ's technical competence. Not everyone expects the DJ to the guy incharge of mics. If we are however, it will matter a great deal that we get it right because it's not going to get any easier as the available spectrum continues to diminish
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So I'm a little confused... are you saying there was a solution with the Shure BLX H11 frequency range that mix was using at the location... or was there no solution? If you're saying no, and that the best way is to plan ahead and use those online frequency finders... we tried to help mix on that regard too, but with the BLX line, there is no one model that can cover all the areas we perform in (hence the inconsistent results). Before buying my shure qlxd mics I used Shure's frequency finder (I didn't know about it when I bought my older models).
 
These wireless mics are quite short range so, most of Mix's issues are probably a case of one mic stepping on the other. The presence of a TV station in your area does not guarantee a given frequency will fail - it's just a heads up about what's around you that you should look at and be prepared to deal with.

Often times, we may be operating in spaces shielded from a supposed occupant of a given frequency allocation. We can also choose directional antennas that will focus specifically on signals originating from the sources we want. The charts you refer to reflect the direction the spectrum is expected to take and are not necessarily a real-time account of any given space.

For example, there are still a whole lot of 600MHz mics out there in churches, schools, and conference rooms with users who are completely unaware of the changes to that band. They are still working just fine despite the growing deployments of broadband. The 500MHz band is shrinking fast in the U.S. ad will be the next one to go. Good 500MHz mics can be had for cheaper money these days, but you should only buy them if you're in an area that actually has wide availability.
 
These are allocation charts. They simply identify who has the right of way.
Generalized frequency charts may help you make a purchase decision, or which rack of gear to deploy, but they don't actually predict the true wireless performance at a given local address. Other applications are far more predictive, and the biggest hurdle we encounter is often are OWN setup.

On Monday I need to add 10 more QLXD operating in a room where there is already 4 other wireless mics, and a school full of other wireless systems. My biggest concern is not anything on these generalized charts - it's how to get all of these devices to work without stepping on one another or some other device in the building.
 
When working indoors, building steel can often sufficiently attenuate outside TV signals to a point where your wireless mics work. However, once you move outdoors, to lets say a patio of the said building, your mics may fail.

Broadcasters have the right-of-way so to speak as they are licensed. We (DJs) are merely interlopers that the FCC allows to coexist as long as we don't interfere with license holders. It sucks when you are doing an outdoor gig and a TV news station drops by. They have the right of way (a part 74 license). That doesn't mean they won't work with you. Their gear is typically higher-end and more adjustable if there is a conflict. Make sure you know what frequencies you are using so you can talk to them as they are setting up.

Don't feel bad if you are overwhelmed by all this. There are relatively few people in the audio industry that are true experts on RF. I have probably met most of them and worked together with several of them. The world of RF is considered a black art even within the field of electrical engineering. Many mic manufacturers have done a great job in creating software packages like Wireless Workbench by Shure that can eliminate much of the knowledge needed to figure out real time solutions for a given environment. However, in really tricky environments, even the software isn't enough. If you get any of the audio industry magazines, look for articles written by Henry Cohen, Ike Zimbel, James Stoffo, Jim Dugan, Jason Glass or Peter Erskine. These guys know their stuff.
 
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As always, the answer is "it depends." Most glass does not do much to attenuate RF signals. However, modern buildings often use energy efficient Low-E (low emissivity) glass. This glass actually contains a thin metal coating that can cause some RF attenuation. Standard window tints generally doesn't attenuate RF but some after market tints do use metal coatings to reflect sun energy. These will often have a metallic/mirrored look to them from the outside.

I was selling wireless mics to a studio in view of the new World Trade Center. They had a coating on their glass but you could see the broadcast antennas on top of the building from the studio. The coating wasn't sufficient.

Another thing to consider is doors and windows. A closed door or window can help contain sound. Similarly an open door or door or window that may normally block some RF won't if it is open.

An advantage of higher end wireless systems is the ability to use specialized antennae. Directional antennas can reject signals coming from an unwanted direction. Of course, that also means you need to know where the TV towers are. You also need to be mindful of things that might reflect the unwanted signal back into your directional antenna. When you get to places like Broadway where you have dozens of theaters reusing the same frequencies, you get into some pretty complicated RF setups where you have zoned reception to keep out unwanted signals.
 
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Ausumm said:
This is an amazing pile of knowkedge,
but you realize that the original OP
lost interest 13 posts ago.
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No I didn't. I understand what I'd being said. I will report back how the mics work at the event on April 15th. I just know the ones Taso mentioned are out of my budget right now.
 
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MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
No I didn't. I understand what I'd being said. I will report back how the mics work at the event on April 15th. I just know the ones Taso mentioned are out of my budget right now.
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I’m pretty sure if you had saved all of the money you have wasted on cheap or improper microphones since I’ve been on this board, you could have afforded something much better
 
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