In your opinion Is 2 12 inch subs better than a single 18?
- Thread starter DJ Ricky B
- Start date
Maybe!
I have only had 2 customers in 16 years ask about a Subwoofer. Both of them wanted one at their event. ....One of them wanted to make sure they had the thump of a club, and they also added in my extended lighting display at the time. I was using JRX115s and the 18 inch JSub at the time. I liked that set up at the time, and it rocked for a 200 guest wedding. That 18 weighed like 78 lbs (passive) and I walked it around using a Dolly (not a cart) back then. I hated loading in/out with it. I used that sub at maybe 9 gigs between 2005 and 2010 before selling it. I charged an additional $100 for the sub at the time when requested. The other events I brought it out because they were large events.
I have been asked a few times to turn the bass down on my Alto TSSUB12 at a few weddings in the last few years. ...Usually older guests don't want to hear the bass...and that sub doesn't produce a ton of bass.
The 12 inch Sub and a pair of 10s will easily handle a wedding with 150 guests, and most of the weddings I do have between 70 guests and 130 guests these days....and in smaller mansion venues or I'm out under a tent. Some of these venues don't let the DJs use Subs because neighbors complain.
So really analyzing my typical gigs, I don't see any need for a 18 inch Sub. If I book a school dance in a gym...will the compensation I am earning on the gig even warrant bringing a sub out? I just had a lead the other day...The middle school is doing a 3 hour dance for 200 students in their gym. They have a budget of $300. They had me and 4 other DJs quote at their budget or less. ...For $300 I don't feel like doing the extra work of bringing a Sub with me. They are already getting a standard sound system, and some effect lighting if they book with us. My brother will do the gig since it's closer to him...He said they will get what they are paying for if they book with us. That's a sound system and a couple of light effects, and the 3 hours of music on a Friday. The kids just want to hear their music...as long as it doesn't sound bad will anybody there care?
I have no problem bringing a 12 inch Sub or 2 with me to every wedding I book, but I certainly don't feel it's needed at most of them.
Most customers do not know enough about sound to request a subwoofer .. or even know what one is. You bring one because it actually DOES make most systems sound better. I'm not aware of ANY situation where a proper sub won't make a good top even better (both by extending the low end .. and by allowing the top to better handle low mids by removing those same bands). Whether that is necessary for the intended use and audience would be up for debate .. but not whether it sounds better.
I have done gigs with no sub .. rarely brought them for karaoke, since most karaoke music just isn't audiophile quality. And if it is speaking only, there won't be any benefit, as voices can't go that low. But since I ditched the very large subs I had, I still bring subs .. even when not actually needed .. because I prefer the look (dislike tripods) and they actually take up less floor space than a tripod properly extended.
The EVOX sub is fine for almost everything I do .. I would prefer a little more for outdoor events and some larger halls .. but don't have the back for a proper pair of 18s .. so a good pair of 15s will suffice.
I have done gigs with no sub .. rarely brought them for karaoke, since most karaoke music just isn't audiophile quality. And if it is speaking only, there won't be any benefit, as voices can't go that low. But since I ditched the very large subs I had, I still bring subs .. even when not actually needed .. because I prefer the look (dislike tripods) and they actually take up less floor space than a tripod properly extended.
The EVOX sub is fine for almost everything I do .. I would prefer a little more for outdoor events and some larger halls .. but don't have the back for a proper pair of 18s .. so a good pair of 15s will suffice.
2 12 inch subs might have the ability to louder, but most likely cannot go lower than an 18. So, if your only concern is playing at volume, the 12s are probably fine. I run an 18 because I want the depth that it can get to.
You know, listening to the Evox 8 at the DJ Expo, I thought the sound quality was excellent. I would figure it would be just about the perfect system for everybody who isn't doing larger events. They even did a sound comparison of that system along with another RCF 15 or 18 inch sub (can't remember) and a RCF 745 Art speaker. The sound quality was almost exactly the same. The RCF Art 745 had more power, and more throw, but sound quality/clarity wise they were both very similar
Have you encountered any venues down there in NOVA yet where there were stairs, and you made the decision to just leave the 18 in the car, or did you still carry it in?
I've definitely taken it up stairs, very recently in fact. If I know I'm going to be doing stairs with it, I try to have an assistant with me. The only place I leave it at home every time is Top of the Town which is a rooftop venue in Arlington, VA that has very strict sound policies.
Last week, I did a 40ish person corporate event with just my EV 12s. But even for weddings that are only 90-100 guests I always bring the sub. It's just a sound quality thing for me.
TOTT...Been there 8 times over the years. The Management staff recognizes me every time I walk in. At first I absolutely hated their no line dance and no jumping song policy, but I got over that, and have a pretty thick skin there when I let guests at weddings know that I can't play their song requests due to the venue policy.
I don't like load in there since it's a long walk, and only 1 elevator, BUT...I always book high paying weddings there so I will continue to work there. ...I have been asked a few times by management to turn the bass down on my Alto TS112s when I was using them there.
I don't like load in there since it's a long walk, and only 1 elevator, BUT...I always book high paying weddings there so I will continue to work there. ...I have been asked a few times by management to turn the bass down on my Alto TS112s when I was using them there.
I use two 12-inch EV ZXA1-Subs. (with a pair of EV 12" tops)
As others have said, lighter and smaller are definitely better as I get older.
Also I traded in my tripod stands for a pair of sub poles,
so I feel it makes my setup easier, cleaner, and safer. (less tripping hazard)
As for the sound, the rooms I play are definitely too small for 18-inch subs...
and the 12's have enough kick to fill the space.
And for the record, I went without a sub for almost 25-years.
(and I still have some very small gigs where I don't use mine at all)
As others have said, lighter and smaller are definitely better as I get older.
Also I traded in my tripod stands for a pair of sub poles,
so I feel it makes my setup easier, cleaner, and safer. (less tripping hazard)
As for the sound, the rooms I play are definitely too small for 18-inch subs...
and the 12's have enough kick to fill the space.
And for the record, I went without a sub for almost 25-years.
(and I still have some very small gigs where I don't use mine at all)
The Bose Compact, I get. The Fender Expo/Maui, I get. The Evox 8, I get.
I'm relaxing in the Legion with a fellow Legionnaire, who's celebrating his 103rd birthday. Tonight it is Karaoke, and the KJ is in early setting up a pair of L1 MKII's with a pair of B2's, ToneMatch, the whole nine yards. What a complicated setup, and IMHO it does not have an "integrated" look. I almost have tears watching this guy. Forget the fact that most of the mids/highs are too close to the floor, since this was not on a stage.
One of you Bose Heroes needs to make a mount for the Column's base so that it can sit on the B2 when the B2 is turned sideways (both woofers next to the floor). IMHO, it will look a lot more integrated, the column will sit higher, and the low frequencies might better couple to the room. Anybody who makes money off of this owes me a beer.
I'm relaxing in the Legion with a fellow Legionnaire, who's celebrating his 103rd birthday. Tonight it is Karaoke, and the KJ is in early setting up a pair of L1 MKII's with a pair of B2's, ToneMatch, the whole nine yards. What a complicated setup, and IMHO it does not have an "integrated" look. I almost have tears watching this guy. Forget the fact that most of the mids/highs are too close to the floor, since this was not on a stage.
One of you Bose Heroes needs to make a mount for the Column's base so that it can sit on the B2 when the B2 is turned sideways (both woofers next to the floor). IMHO, it will look a lot more integrated, the column will sit higher, and the low frequencies might better couple to the room. Anybody who makes money off of this owes me a beer.
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Would you believe he still drives (daytime only)!! In his youth he was a dance instructor, and it shows.
I know a 12" sub that can outperform many 18" subs out there. It is all about design. The weddings and gigs that i do my customers demand great bottom end so I always bring at least 2 tops and two folded horns. As for that 12" sub here is the culprit.
Anything over 50 pounds I consider heavy, but I must say it is truly remarkable seeing a 7' horn in an 88 pound enclosure. A pair of these with a pair of those dual 10" Carvins Steve just posted should be good for crushing concrete. I also consider the Carvins heavy, but the first thing I'd do is remove all the steel used to link multiples of them together.
Another 12" sub that will outdo many 18s and it's 142 pounds passive .. TH112 | Danley Sounds Labs | Danley Sound Labs, Inc.
JTR, Danley, Bass Boss, Ramsdell .. there are a few super high performance sub manufacturers out there. They use high excursion drivers to eek out that last bit of performance in a box. The downside is most of those drivers are cast, and heavier than the cheaper stamped frames. Plus, the cabinets are usually made from thicker plywood to handle the pressures.
When I did live sound, I often thought about getting a pair of Danley TH118 subs or JTR Orbit Shifters .. Not sure my back would have appreciated the weight, but damn those subs will go toe to toe with almost anything under $5K.
JTR, Danley, Bass Boss, Ramsdell .. there are a few super high performance sub manufacturers out there. They use high excursion drivers to eek out that last bit of performance in a box. The downside is most of those drivers are cast, and heavier than the cheaper stamped frames. Plus, the cabinets are usually made from thicker plywood to handle the pressures.
When I did live sound, I often thought about getting a pair of Danley TH118 subs or JTR Orbit Shifters .. Not sure my back would have appreciated the weight, but damn those subs will go toe to toe with almost anything under $5K.
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For those that like to roll your own, there's the LAB Sub, also a 12" driver and arguable the forerunner of all -
LSP Documentation Page - drawings, photos, specs and more - Pro Sound Web
Not for the timid.
LSP Documentation Page - drawings, photos, specs and more - Pro Sound Web
Not for the timid.