Is It True?

Dessicant said:

I don't know if the average guest cares, but I care. Now that I have an interest in this field, the very first thing I do at any wedding, party, club? Scan all the gear and discuss it with the DJ! I will never be a full time DJ as I am too busy with regular work, but when I do land a gig now and then there will be one stipulation: Lot's of setup time. Like 4 hours minimum. I like to bring lots of lights and lots of gear. It makes me feel powerful. I know, it's a delusion, but I'm good with that.

Click to expand...

I'm different than that. I bring the gear that's needed for an effective event. I'm not one who believes more is always better. If lots of equipment and lights are needed, then I'm all for it. But in my experience, giving them more equipment is just more things that can fail.

I prefer small, but powerful gear that can get the job without dominating the landscape in the room. I understand why some djs feel they are giving the client more value by bringing more equipment, but it's hardly ever true. It's the dj's performance that they'll remember most. Play the right songs, do great MCing, and the equipment will hardy matter. The equipment will matter if it sounds bad or looks atrocious, or isn't what the client was expecting.

I was doing a corporate event. Someone came up and said how great it sounded with such little equipment. He mentioned that he just got married, and they paid a bunch of money to have a draped wall with decorations on it, and the DJ came in, set up a ton of gear for 125 people that covered up most of the wall that they had paid for.

Some djs feel the same way about bass. They know can bass makemusic sound better, so they assume lots of bass will make it sound a lot better. Not always true.

I get to events about 2 hrs in advance. My setup time is rarely over 30 minutes. And that's if there's a number of lights.

If anything makes me feel powerful, it's when people say, " Thanks, that was a great event. Everything went perfect"

I never "sell" myself on the gear I use. I show them a picture of what I use and occasionally a picture of what some of my competition uses and that's it. I never talk about speakers, watts, controllers... I mention lighting and uplighting and that's it.

I don't want to appear to anyone like I am bragging. (yes, it will continue so get used to it)

djmagicmoments said:

I never "sell" myself on the gear I use. I show them a picture of what I use and occasionally a picture of what some of my competition uses and that's it. I never talk about speakers, watts, controllers... I mention lighting and uplighting and that's it.

I don't want to appear to anyone like I am bragging. (yes, it will continue so get used to it)

Click to expand...

I typically mention my gear, but don't focus on it. I let them know that the system will sound great all look great. I mention the brand as people associate it with quality. I show the a picture of what a typical set up looks like. It's a very small part of the presentation, but an effective one.

I never show set ups of anyone else. I have no idea who else they are considering. I also don't consider other dj companies my competition. I network with them. We can only do so many events.

A potential client years ago asked me if I heard about another dj. I told Ive never met him but heard good things about him. She ended up booking with him as he was cheaper. She told him what I said. He called and thanked me. We met and have been friends ever since. He's done events for me, has sent me gigs

My only competition is the amount of time I have and how effectively I use it. What others do has very little effect on my business.

I don't brag, but I want people to get an accurate idea of what to expect. In my experience, when a customer's expectations is In line with what will happen, we get a happy client.

When I show other gear, it is ONLY to show how our setup looks compared to others. It is never to put another company down or to make them look bad in any way. In fact, I never show pictures of local dj's. For a few reasons... I don't have or want pictures of other local dj's and I work very well with 99.9% of the dj's in my area. I refer more jobs to others than I take for myself.

We show the pictures to ONLY show that we have no wires hanging anywhere or don't have giant speakers everywhere. It is communicated in the most professional way possible.

Proformance said:

The thing is, people aren't necessarily willing to participate in your delusion.

If you start chatting me up at a gig I'll be polite but, ultimately I'm there to serve a client's interest (not yours) and I'm going to end the conversation at the point where those interests diverge.

The idea that you would be entitled to 4 hours for setup of DJ gear and DJ lighting is unrealistic. The role of the banquet sales office is to maximize the sale and use of the space, and at hotels that means back-to-back events. If it takes 4 man hours to do your setup - then you should have 4 people available to work on it when there is only a one hour window in the room flip.

You can choose to be part time but, you cannot survive a choice to be unprofessional.

Click to expand...

I take a different view. I think it would be unprofessional to take a gig where the setup time allowed is insufficient for me to build and test my rig thoroughly before the festivities begin. I understand that the time I want will not be offered most of the time, and that other DJs will be able to do their thing with less time. And in those cases I am fine with allowing another company to get the contract. I am not in this for the money, I am in this for the creativity and the fun. And I don't have fun and cannot be creative when there is not enough time for load out, build, and test. Especially test.

It would be unprofessional if I took a gig and then started demanding time for setup beyond what the client could offer. So I avoid that by making setup time my first and foremost consideration. My plan is to discuss that BEFORE anything else, including my price. If I can't get that time, then I don't do that gig.

For my New Year's gig, they are allowing me to set up the room the day before, because there is, predictably, nothing happening on Dec 30. In February I have a gig where the events that are going on before my event will not be disturbed by having my wiring and truss pre-built and in place. So while I will not have a 4 hour continuous setup, I will have all the time in the world the night before to build and wire things. Then I can set up "day of" in a couple of hours. I also have a wedding scheduled for September 2017 where the wedding party is taking over a campground and clubhouse for an entire weekend. I will have unlimited setup time there.

So you can find these things if you look for them. And of course, for a small party where you only need me, a few speakers, a mixer and my computer-DJ controller, I don't need 4 hours at all obviously. But that's not the type of gig I am really looking for.

For New Year's, I am writing custom lighting routines for at least 20 of the bigger dance-centric songs that I will be playing. For the wedding, all of the important songs will be time coded with custom light routines. This kind of thing is very precise, so I do need testing time after my build to make sure that everything runs smooth at showtime. I do test most of this at home long before the gig, but let's face it, moving the rig to a venue has all kinds of issues associated with it, so mandating that there is adequate testing time is the MOST professional thing you can do to deliver the product you promised.

Scott Hanna said:

I typically mention my gear, but don't focus on it. I let them know that the system will sound great all look great. I mention the brand as people associate it with quality. I show the a picture of what a typical set up looks like. It's a very small part of the presentation, but an effective one.

I never show set ups of anyone else. I have no idea who else they are considering. I also don't consider other dj companies my competition. I network with them. We can only do so many events.

A potential client years ago asked me if I heard about another dj. I told Ive never met him but heard good things about him. She ended up booking with him as he was cheaper. She told him what I said. He called and thanked me. We met and have been friends ever since. He's done events for me, has sent me gigs

My only competition is the amount of time I have and how effectively I use it. What others do has very little effect on my business.

I don't brag, but I want people to get an accurate idea of what to expect. In my experience, when a customer's expectations is In line with what will happen, we get a happy client.

Click to expand...

I like this. I think marketing should always be about what you offer and why it is great. Not about putting others down. This is how I operate in real estate also. I am frequently in competition with other appraisers or real estate agents to get a contract or appraisal assignment. I show what I bring to the table, and really nothing else. If another appraiser or agent comes up, I steer the conversation back to what I am offering. There's plenty of business to go around for everyone who is competent and takes pride in their work. No need to slight others. Even when I deal with various contractors or ancillary professionals, if they put down one of their competitors, that loses me right away and I don't feel that I want to hire them. It just sounds bad. Even though I am not qualified to be called a professional DJ, I still intend to treat it as a profession and support other DJs and the profession at large. Would I want to attend a trade show or conference with other DJs and know that either I put them down to get a gig, or they put me down to get a gig? No. Besides we may all need each other at some point. If someone asks me to do something I could never hope to handle, I would want a network of other DJs to refer.

My family is involved in the entertainment business, my sister is in a band (Judas Priestess!), my brother-in-law is in a band (Dream Theater!), my nephew is in a band (Periphery!). I've been to a million shows and I have infinite appreciation and respect for anyone who can create a show, lug gear to a venue, set it up, play the show, break it down, and move on to another.

Respect to anyone who does this whether it is a band, a show, or a DJ. It's hard!

DJ Ricky B said:

I usually have 15 to 20 minutes for a bathroom break, and to sit for a few minutes before I start.

Click to expand...

Ummm....sounds like you need more roughage in your diet...

And back in the day, the only "controller" we had was our minds, expertise and fingers.

These young-un's have no idea how easy they have it...

Dessicant said:

I take a different view. I think it would be unprofessional to take a gig where the setup time allowed is insufficient for me to build and test my rig thoroughly before the festivities begin.

Click to expand...

That's something you should be doing on your own property before the rig goes out. The day of the event is not the time to be building and testing things. My truss systems and fixture groups go together in minutes, not hours. Multi-cables resolve the hookups for quick connect/disconnect.

You're eventually going to find that the most well run facilities will be keen on the liability of having you on the premises for extended periods of time. You're a liability they don't want; your gear a safety and security hazard they don't need.

Furthermore, when a guy like me comes along for the next gig and you're still not out of the way - that's a liability the venue dreads. I have clients who have gotten 50% of their entire banquet invoice refunded because the hotel failed to make the space fully available and ready as contracted due to a previous event. If you can't move quickly then you need to know how many times your insurance company is willing to eat that claim if a hotel cites and enjoins you in a claim. Typically that's once - if your policy even has that kind of coverage.

Proformance said:

That's something you should be doing on your own property before the rig goes out. The day of the event is not the time to be building and testing things. My truss systems and fixture groups go together in minutes, not hours. Multi-cables resolve the hookups for quick connect/disconnect.

You're eventually going to find that the most well run facilities will be keen on the liability of having you on the premises for extended periods of time. You're a liability they don't want; your gear a safety and security hazard they don't need.

Furthermore, when a guy like me comes along for the next gig and you're still not out of the way - that's a liability the venue dreads. I have clients who have gotten 50% of their entire banquet invoice refunded because the hotel failed to make the space fully available and ready as contracted due to a previous event. If you can't move quickly then you need to know how many times your insurance company is willing to eat that claim if a hotel cites and enjoins you in a claim. Typically that's once - if your policy even has that kind of coverage.

Click to expand...

Good points overall. I will say my breakdown is extremely organized and very quick. Road cases and rolling cases for everything, all labeled and ready to go. On the build out however, I am very clear upfront, and if the venue or the client has a problem or a concern or even a preference not to want to grant me the time I need for setup and testing, then I just simply defer to someone else to complete the gig. I have no problem with that. I don't need any particular gig, and I only want a client and venue that are willing to give me the preparation time that I need. I fully understand that for some people and places the answer to my request is going to be "no way". And I'll just get out of the way and let a faster company complete that gig.

But I have my way of doing things, and while I am flexible on many things, I am not going to be flexible on my setup time. I've seen the horror of rushed setup and stress and dysfunction at an event. I've also seen it in clubs where bands get no sound check and/or rush to set up and breakdown and end up with bad sound, non-working lights, stuff left behind, no place to park, and that sort of thing. If I was 25 and desperate, I might have to go along with that and roll with the punches. But I am not 25, and I'm pretty good at explaining and convincing someone who might want to use me of what I need and why I need it. And if I get undue resistance or non-cooperation, I'm out. It's that simple.

A good show takes time. And while we are not Coldplay or Lady Gaga, we are still providing a show of sorts, within limits. And adequate time for setup makes for a good show and a relaxed and confident DJ. And since that can be negotiated and delineated up front, no one needs to be dissatisfied or unhappy.

Dessicant said:

Good points overall. I will say my breakdown is extremely organized and very quick. Road cases and rolling cases for everything, all labeled and ready to go. On the build out however, I am very clear upfront, and if the venue or the client has a problem or a concern or even a preference not to want to grant me the time I need for setup and testing, then I just simply defer to someone else to complete the gig. I have no problem with that. I don't need any particular gig, and I only want a client and venue that are willing to give me the preparation time that I need. I fully understand that for some people and places the answer to my request is going to be "no way". And I'll just get out of the way and let a faster company complete that gig.

But I have my way of doing things, and while I am flexible on many things, I am not going to be flexible on my setup time. I've seen the horror of rushed setup and stress and dysfunction at an event. I've also seen it in clubs where bands get no sound check and/or rush to set up and breakdown and end up with bad sound, non-working lights, stuff left behind, no place to park, and that sort of thing. If I was 25 and desperate, I might have to go along with that and roll with the punches. But I am not 25, and I'm pretty good at explaining and convincing someone who might want to use me of what I need and why I need it. And if I get undue resistance or non-cooperation, I'm out. It's that simple.

A good show takes time. And while we are not Coldplay or Lady Gaga, we are still providing a show of sorts, within limits. And adequate time for setup makes for a good show and a relaxed and confident DJ. And since that can be negotiated and delineated up front, no one needs to be dissatisfied or unhappy.

Click to expand...

We disagree on what constitutes creativity.

As an event tech I know there's a lot of creativity that goes into the methods of deployment and developing the most efficient ways to achieve these results upon which you spend hours. The net gain is more quality time and energy sustained for the performance - having not spent it on load-in and setup.

I don't think you can be a better DJ by exhausting yourself on 4 or more hours of setup. This is why entertainers use roadies - because you only have so much to give.

tunes4046 said:

I use a controller but only because I like the tactile feel of it, I don't do any fancy DJ tricks or effects,

Click to expand...

I use a controller for at least two reasons.

First, I've been mixing since the (real) age of vinyl. Doing a gig without mixing does not feel anything like DJing to me - it's just a playlist which to me feels a lot like bagging groceries.

Second, it allows me to make better use of the PC and applications. I can run a DJ software and a separate karaoke software simultaneously because the controller is the sound card for DJ apps, and the karaoke music is routed from the PC headphone jack, and can even be tapped at the external HDMI video port. The mixer is external to the PC thereby giving me dual functionality of software from a single PC.

Proformance said:

We disagree on what constitutes creativity.

As an event tech I know there's a lot of creativity that goes into the methods of deployment and developing the most efficient ways to achieve these results upon which you spend hours. The net gain is more quality time and energy sustained for the performance - having not spent it on load-in and setup.

I don't think you can be a better DJ by exhausting yourself on 4 or more hours of setup. This is why entertainers use roadies - because you only have so much to give.

Click to expand...

Roadies! That would be awesome. What I would like to see is a roadie version of Uber. You text your venue and load-in/load out, and a roadie crew shows up, loads you in, builds your set, and then they come back and break you down when it's all over. Is that too much to ask for? Yes, I'm sure it is.

By the way I reread this thread and I'm coming off as a bit headstrong. Trust me, I know I am a nobody in this world so I am glad to hear criticisms and learn from the experienced members of this forum. The more I learn about how this world operates, the more respect I have. It seems like a very tough business.

Dessicant said:

By the way I reread this thread and I'm coming off as a bit headstrong. Trust me, I know I am a nobody in this world so I am glad to hear criticisms and learn from the experienced members of this forum. The more I learn about how this world operates, the more respect I have. It seems like a very tough business.

Click to expand...

All business is tough. That's a good thing. It's why not everyone does it.

As they say, I may not be a somebody in this world, but I mean the world to somebody.

In my opinion, we are all learning. Some have more experience than others, but we are all still learning.

Except for Proformance that is, he's known everything since June 17,1994.

I'm just kidding, Bob. I don't know what the actual date is.

Scott Hanna said:

Except for Proformance that is, he's known everything since June 17,1994. I'm just kidding, Bob. I don't know what the actual date is.

Click to expand...

Scott...you owe me a new keyboard...