...and I hope he proves, to the detriment of the MexIKEA, why he is a hobbyist and not a legitimate businessman.
That's twice in one day, hell twice in a 5 minute span, that I have agreed with Matt. Cough, Hack, someone get me some mouthwash..lol
The economy strikes again!
- Thread starter So Cal Hugh
- Start date
That's twice in one day, hell twice in a 5 minute span, that I have agreed with Matt. Cough, Hack, someone get me some mouthwash..lol
SMACKS. It is nothing but...and clients/people/humans will use whatever ploys they can to get something for nothing . And when otherwise intelligent businessmen submit, they reinforce the unfortunate benefits of greed and selfish expectations.
Hugh, your competitor has won on all counts. He gets to look like a "good" guy and he has his competition giving away their service.
How you gonna make that deposit on Monday?:sqerr:
Does your bank take "Attaboys!" in lieu of cash?:sqconfused:
That client not only revealed how little they think of you, by getting or expecting you to work for no compensation, but they as much as said, by their actions, that you are worth ZERO.
No friend of mine would want me to work for nothing nor would I them.
I would dread working for such clients.
It is not the economy at all, it is behavior that leads to such actions and you are complicit by submitting.
I disagree, but it's a calculated gamble. To Be Continued.
Yeah, do you want to make long term clients or just get in get your money and get out?
Me, I will sometimes take a break even job (with $0 profit) if there is the potential for a long term profitable relationship. This has paid off for me in the past as one of my largest clients now ($50k a year) began when I did an installation where I only broke even (lost money on the equipment giving them an upgrade which ate up all the labor frees of which I only charged them probably 1 hour for every 5 I actually worked).
I guess it depends on your business philosophy.
I have done several volunteer gigs in the past 3 months for clients and 2 other at a significant discount (over 50% off) to build up client relationships. As long as all I am giving away is my time, I am not really losing anything. I am investing in my company, and it will pay off in the long term. Am I looking at Monday or am I looking six months or a year down the road?
Mike
Esoteric,
You summed it up perfectly for my position. I am hoping that they return to their profitable ways soon, and I receive my profit again, too. If I'm gone that chance is seriously impacted. If I'm there my chances are good.
You summed it up perfectly for my position. I am hoping that they return to their profitable ways soon, and I receive my profit again, too. If I'm gone that chance is seriously impacted. If I'm there my chances are good.
SMACKS. It is nothing but...and clients/people/humans will use whatever ploys they can to get something for nothing . And when otherwise intelligent businessmen submit, they reinforce the unfortunate benefits of greed and selfish expectations.
Hugh, your competitor has won on all counts. He gets to look like a "good" guy and he has his competition giving away their service.
How you gonna make that deposit on Monday?:sqerr:
Does your bank take "Attaboys!" in lieu of cash?:sqconfused:
That client not only revealed how little they think of you, by getting or expecting you to work for no compensation, but they as much as said, by their actions, that you are worth ZERO.
Well said Rox.........I hear Listerine is a good mouth wash......LOL
No friend of mine would want me to work for nothing nor would I them.
I would dread working for such clients.
It is not the economy at all, it is behavior that leads to such actions and you are complicit by submitting.
Well said, Rox.
(I hear Listerine is a good mouthwash......LOL)
Well said, Rox.
(I hear Listerine is a good mouthwash......LOL)
Arsenic would be quicker and much more affective...
G
Guest
Guest
Doing cheaper and a lot less than my competition has kept my seo biz alive. They're flocking to me now as I don't rip people off and send out free newsletters, tips, advice and things to do to help your business - free.
When I was DJing I was always reasonable - not cheap just fair none of that worth bollocks
I'm ultra reasonable now as some of my clients are suffering so I do my utmost to get them ticking over with the caveat that they must be pro active in their ranking efforts.
A newsletter can be created FREE with Google Documents and just takes me a few hours to write/type - my old customers are gold dust and if they're in the $hit I help them - of course I have to charge but flexibility is key.
There is nothing these fancy pants, know it all BS SEO companies can do that I can't - 'cept I keep it affordable and with NO BOLLOCKS
Look after your old customers - reap what you sow is so right..
David
G
Guest
Guest
That, Matt, smacks of arrogance and I think you have a very high opinion of yourself .
Remember anyone can spin and say things - it's the customer service that ****ing well counts.
Twatt
Customer service does NOT mean bending over and taking it in the @$$, unless you are a poof and a wanker, and we know you are not one of those, right???
Customer service does NOT mean bending over and taking it in the @$$, unless you are a poof and a wanker, and we know you are not one of those, right???
Matt,
You likely will never convince someone of something they don't truly believe. Davy, Hugh, and many others have, based on their behavior, the same value opinion, of our craft, service, business, as the clients that compare us to jukeboxes and IPods and equipment rental. They see no difference from DJ to DJ, and expect price to be the determining factor.
It is the old quantity v. quality game.
The market, apparently, has enough room for them, you, and me.
To each his own.
As a practice I don't respond to idiots. Here goes.
This job is a private school. That means that they raise funds by tuition only. The teachers, nun, etc. all work for very low wages for a great cause - the future of kids.
In the past they had lots of kids at the school, so they felt that they could afford my full price. No, I did not discount it because they knew I was worth the cost.
This year, with the economy in the dumps the enrollment is way down, and the family that sponsored my fees in the past is gone now. They had to do what they did.
As for me, I felt that they needed me to step up for them as they have for me. See, they got cheaper quotes in the past, but knew my product and service is second to none (or nun), so they took my price instead.
Now, a very worth while charity in my area, one that has helped support my family in the past, needs help. I guess I'm just the kind of guy who recognizes that money isn't everything. I'm very proud that I arrived at the decision I did.
In time they will have funds to pay me again. They will look to me as a professional who buys into their vision and purpose.
THAT'S my own.
Hey guys, no need for name calling or anything. There is room for everyone. If Rox were in my area he would not be in business very long. He would lower prices or be on the street eating out of trashcans.
But it works in his area. Believe me if it worked in my area I would keep my prices up too.
While all value and cost are subject to market forces (nothing has inherent value) the market forces are different in different areas.
Mike
But it works in his area. Believe me if it worked in my area I would keep my prices up too.
While all value and cost are subject to market forces (nothing has inherent value) the market forces are different in different areas.
Mike
Yeah, let's not call names...let's just make baseless comments. Not much difference.
As to Hugh's inane name calling, when your defense is to offend, you have no defense. But, I will address his initial question, again:
1) I would immediately contact the established, allegedly, client and request a face-to-face with the decision makers to determine, to actually find out, not assume, the real factors that caused the cancellation. The reasons given on the phone are generally not the over riding causes but an easy out that mistakenly uses deceit to cushion or limit the impact.
2) I would re-evaluate my performances and service. The economy may not have much to do with it.
3) I would seek to find a market that fits my service and capabilities.
4) I would NOT feel compelled to provide free services to a non-charitable organization. A private school that has NEVER paid for your service, the generous sponsor did, is not a charity. It is obvious that they do not value the service given the first time they have to fund it they claim poverty.
5) Lastly, I would not come to ODJT, ask for opinions and advice and then get indignant and immature when I don't like some one's posts.
Explain how hiring your better service and getting a more valuable, desired result is "stepping up for you"?
The sponsor got what they paid for. Now the sponsor is gone and you somehow have to "step up" and donate because they hired you in the past.
If you were laid off from a 9-to-5, would you still show up at work and perform because they "had valued your work in the past."
Private schools are simply educational businesses. If they are so bad at managing their finances, they need to address that and not seek to have others assume the responsibility.
How do I say this....many folks who are working in factories around here dont make $800 in a 40 hour week....in 26 not bad....but then again we are djs we are the elite arnt we.
Look just because the show is beneath you and you wont take it why do we need to bad mouth someone who does....do you know the guys statis....heck if he is out of work that may feed his family....
There is so much more to running a business than what you charge....if you believe it is....fine thats you....others of us know we can make it on less and we have developed our business to do so.....isnt that what its about...running your business the way you see fit, so that you can turn a profit, pay the bills and enjoy some of the rewards....at the same time provide a service for your customers that is worth it to them......
Again if $30.00 an hour is beneath you fine punch the card and say next...someone else needs the money and will do it....you follow YOUR BUSINESS PLAN AND ALL WILL BE FINE
Well dog,
Here are some other possibilities:
A provider charging $30/hr is either a phenomenal expense manager, independently wealthy and needs no positive income, or, and the likely scenario, performing with stolen or illegally copied music/using non-professional-underperforming equipment/without insurance/ and paying no taxes on the income.
Except for the first option, the other two are a not positive influence on the consumers perception of this craft.
Unfortunately, no mater how many scenarios we conjure, the last in my list is the more common and prevalent type of scumbag that poisons the well. Even if he never gets a referral he has had a negative impact on the consumer's experience and serves as an example for individuals that hold the art of DJing in such low regard.
I cannot sympathize with that and don't understand how those that claim to respect the craft are so willingly and primed to jump to the defense of the catfish that are chumming up the waters.
YMMV but ICCL.
Here are some other possibilities:
A provider charging $30/hr is either a phenomenal expense manager, independently wealthy and needs no positive income, or, and the likely scenario, performing with stolen or illegally copied music/using non-professional-underperforming equipment/without insurance/ and paying no taxes on the income.
Except for the first option, the other two are a not positive influence on the consumers perception of this craft.
Unfortunately, no mater how many scenarios we conjure, the last in my list is the more common and prevalent type of scumbag that poisons the well. Even if he never gets a referral he has had a negative impact on the consumer's experience and serves as an example for individuals that hold the art of DJing in such low regard.
I cannot sympathize with that and don't understand how those that claim to respect the craft are so willingly and primed to jump to the defense of the catfish that are chumming up the waters.
YMMV but ICCL.
Well said, Rox.
The amount offered is simply BELOW the cost of production for a legitamate business.
Now--- If this was freakin' COSTCO....I would eat the lower cost as an advertising expense.
There was supposed to be a new Costco in my town opening in 2010, but its been pushed back to 2012 by the sh1tty economy.
So you would know the type of music and equipment someone has how....if your so busy....just wondering.... and most real people wouldnt know either.
As far as giving a show away...its not yours to give away....its not your business or your plan....you seem to have an axe to grind with just about everyone who doesnt see or want to do it your way....
In June of 2004 I started my company.....did NO shows for myself but did some for my buddy about 8 or 9 I think. In 2008 I did 46 shows which 34 were my own and the rest for a couple buddies That doesnt include the 10 bar gigs that I also did. Last year I did 2 free shows and can track 5 shows from those that have booked and paid....thats called return on investment Im happy....I do less of those all the time...none set for this year but if the right oppurtunity presented itself you can rest assured I would do it again.
As far as the $30.00 per hour most people would love to make that...dont believe me ask the question of anyone you meet in the real world....If you could make $30.00 an hour and only work 26 hours would you. Now if your talking quality....your not there to prove its good or bad...but you sure do lump them in a pile cause you feel, what, they are not up to your standard......hmmm. Most of us started at the same spot and most of us are working are way up...just cause your there you shouldnt be brow beating....or did you start at the top ......things to ponder......The guy who took the job is working that weekend are you....if so great...you wont have to worry about him....and if he does a good job great...if not still not your worry....
Matt its advertising expense for one but not the other....care to explain that.
Again folks each person does things the way they see fit....if you dont like it fine....some of us dont have a big advertising budget....(try none to be honest) but how we have done it has worked to our advantage...the old saying...gotta spend money to make money....really works
If you know your customers and you know that you can create more goodwill that sour grapes do what you must for your own business not cause someone says its wrong or they wouldnt....its your business do what you must to be in the public eye.....if all the shows started to want freebees then you have a problem.
How is it more likely that they are using stolen music? $30/hr is good pay! My income varies depending on the job/client, but I do jobs for many clients at a rate that is sometimes much lower than $30/hr. By the way you do know that $30/hr is over $62000/yr, right? I would love it if my fiance made $62000 a year in her (professional) job.
Mike
Mike
Apples and oranges Mike.
Thanks for the validation...that I am wasting my time.:sqerr: