Bar & Club Bar Hit With $45,000 Fine for “Pirated” Karaoke Songs.

[DJCC]

How much do these lisc. cost. There is a new DJ in my area, pretty nice guy. He plays Karaoke and music in small local bars 3 nights a week and host some pay at the door events for teens at a local venue. I know he doesn't have any BMI/ASCAP lisc, and doubt very much the bars and venue he plays in do either.

Ray J.

It is the responsibility of the bar owners where he plays karaoke and music to get the licenses. For the teen "pay at the door" events it is the responsibility of the person/persons that organizes those events. If the DJ is just a guy paid to play the music then it is not his responsibility.

As for the cost, there are a lot of variables, # of chairs, square footage, live music, DJ/karaoke, cover charge, etc.

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My IQ is about 170 -- where exactly do you rate and get to call me incorrect ?.

Could care less about your IQ. I get to call you incorrect because you are.

 

[steve149]

How much do these lisc. cost. There is a new DJ in my area, pretty nice guy. He plays Karaoke and music in small local bars 3 nights a week and host some pay at the door events for teens at a local venue. I know he doesn't have any BMI/ASCAP lisc, and doubt very much the bars and venue he plays in do either.

Ray J.

It's a formula they use based on number of "sessions", audience size, etc. Probably in the $750-$2,000 range for each of the 3 groups: BMI, ASCAP and SESAC.

 

[steve149]

Not sure I could agree, or disagree on that... May have to watch another episode of Justified to figure that out...

I've watched the series 7 times now -- only eclipsed by Hogan's Heros at about 20. If you ever want know any trivia, feel free to ask

See what happens when you get your learnin' from the TV.

 

[oldschooldj]

The DJ rents the lodge building and promotes his own teen dance night (actually it is the Woodsmen of the World Building) I play in there often, but it is either for a free event (funds raiser) or for any organization that rents the building and hires me to do the DJ work.

 

[SoftJock Rick]

See what happens when you get your learnin' from the TV.

I suppose it could be worse -- I could be learning from a DJ BBS. Perhaps I will start listening to Mix and Knut. Hey, spend 800 to 1400 on toys.

Now, when you want discuss the Founding Fathers, I am all in.

BTW, I don't have a TV -- just Amazon Prime.

 

[Proformance]

BMI is the smaller of the two major U.S. royalty agencies. Their share of the music market isn't that large and if your venue only has an ASCAP license you can avoid the BMI trap by diligently checking the record labels before you put a song into rotation. If the label indicates BMI affiliation - don't play it!

Before a law suit can even be filed a BMI investigator has to frequent your establishment, verify that you perform music publicly, and that the songs played are in fact part of the BMI catalog. This should be routine training for any DJ working in a club, lounge, or radio station that has a limited collection of licenses.

I believe modern subscription services probably handle the licensing on behalf of the venues or large corporate chains - so, I see a potential vulnerability in the hospitality industry where bar managers are too far removed from the music services and may no longer be aware of the license requirements. They may advance or move on in their career without having dealt with the issue, then get burned when they end up somewhere that doesn't have that upper tier of oversight.

There is no provision for BMI or ASCAP (or anyone else) to sue an establishment where a DJ is brought in to service a private party (wedding, birthday, etc.) This only applies to bands, DJs, and KJs brought in to service the public bar & restaurant crowd.

BMI and ASCAP also have no authority (or interest) in whether or not your music is pirated - they only earn money when the songs are played, or covered live, and that royalty is due no matter how the track was obtained. Only a copyright holder or representing agent like the RIAA can sue for piracy - and that's a near impossible case to build against a mobile DJ without a former employee as a star witness to actual duping, or internet records of unauthorized file sharing.

Walking into a bar or party and seeing CDRs or a hard drive is not sufficient evidence of piracy. Never has been, never will be.

 

[MIXMASTERMACHOM]

I suppose it could be worse -- I could be learning from a DJ BBS. Perhaps I will start listening to Mix and Knut. Hey, spend 800 to 1400 on toys.

Now, when you want discuss the Founding Fathers, I am all in.

BTW, I don't have a TV -- just Amazon Prime.

Why did you feel the need to drag me into your insanity? I did what I did and I'm happy I did. You don't need to follow me. You need to be happy with you and what you're doing. If you're not happy with what you're doing then you need to find out what will make you happy.

 

[SoftJock Rick]

Why did you feel the need to drag me into your insanity? I did what I did and I'm happy I did. You don't need to follow me. You need to be happy with you and what you're doing. If you're not happy with what you're doing then you need to find out what will make you happy.

Because you drag us all into your insanity. BTW, why do you keep saying people aren't happy?

I'm sitting at my desk drinking a beer right now at 5:30 am, and watching The Shield , and then I'm gonna play frisbee with my dog "partner".

Perhaps I'm not the one that's unhappy here...

And no, I don't follow you around -- I just read every post every day -- and comment (except for lighting stuff). When the temp is 110 in my office, and 134 upstairs in the bathroom -- you don't have a whole lot of options...

 

[Scott Hanna]

There is no such thing as a private event, unless you have it at your house.
....

no such thing as a private event?

is 170 your IQ or your blood alcohol level?

From the small business admin website:

2) Definition of Public Performance


Another possible defense against a claim for infringement is that the performance of the recordings is not public. According to the statutory definition, a sound recording is performed publicly when played “at a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered.”[ix] Courts have ruled that public performance of musical pieces encompasses the playing of recordings over a stereo system in a business establishment for the entertainment of customers.[x] Public performance occurs even where the customers are not directly charged for listening to the music.[xi]

 

[SoftJock Rick]

no such thing as a private event?

is 170 your IQ or your blood alcohol level?

Probably a little bit of both...

If you want to define "private event", let's give it a shot...

If you look at it logically -- you are performing at a venue. If somebody walks in the door, and hears your music -- you've lost your "private event" status. What about other caterers being in the same room? Are they part of your small circle of family and friends?

Granted, nobody will probably bust your ass about it at the moment. But let's say I put my speakers out back, and 500 people can hear my music besides those I invited, it becomes a public event.

You can spin it any way you like -- but it does not mean it's proper, and conforms with the rule of law...

 

[MIXMASTERMACHOM]

Because you drag us all into your insanity. BTW, why do you keep saying people aren't happy?

I'm sitting at my desk drinking a beer right now at 5:30 am, and watching The Shield , and then I'm gonna play frisbee with my dog "partner".

Perhaps I'm not the one that's unhappy here...

And no, I don't follow you around -- I just read every post every day -- and comment (except for lighting stuff). When the temp is 110 in my office, and 134 upstairs in the bathroom -- you don't have a whole lot of options...

Where did I say anything about me saying people aren't happy. I was talking about you and if you're not happy to do something that will make you happy. Let me explain what I mean so you'll fully understand. I mean that if there is some thing that isn't working for you and you don't like it. Then look at how you can change it so you will be happy. I don't know if you're happy or not. Only you can answer that question.

I understand that you don't like that I bought that effects machine. You see it as a waste of money. You're someone who sees a TV as a waste of money since you don't have one. Trust me they don't cost that much. You can get a decent 1 for under $200.00 today and it will last for years. I still have the one I've had for many years. My sister wanted to know why I don't have a flat screen TV. That's because this one is still working fine.

You should try getting one someday and come out of the stone ages. Live a little. I learned to every now and then treat myself to some thing good. I deserve it.

 

[SoftJock Rick]

You should try getting one someday and come out of the stone ages. Live a little. I learned to every now and then treat myself to some thing good. I deserve it.

I actually have a big flat screen TV, and an HD projector -- but it has come to my attention, that they are in my storage unit, 1500 miles away. So, should I drive 3,000 miles round trip to pick them up?

I'm only up here to sell the place. Other than all my tools, it is basically empty. I can watch anything on my lappys for free via Amazon Prime. Heck, for $80 a year, I get all shipping for free as well. That comes in handy, considering I buy stuff by the case, like veggies, chili, roast beef hash, corn -- all the heavy stuff -- and it gets here in two days, delivered right to my door.

 

[Scott Hanna]

Probably a little bit of both...

If you want to define "private event", let's give it a shot...

If you look at it logically -- you are performing at a venue. If somebody walks in the door, and hears your music -- you've lost your "private event" status. What about other caterers being in the same room? Are they part of your small circle of family and friends?

Granted, nobody will probably bust your ass about it at the moment. But let's say I put my speakers out back, and 500 people can hear my music besides those I invited, it becomes a public event.

You can spin it any way you like -- but it does not mean it's proper, and conforms with the rule of law...

i agree that some things can be vague, and lawyers like to argue the little stuff, but I don believe anyone(besides you) is arguing that having workers at a party takes away private status.

They do at least use a little logic

 

[SoftJock Rick]

i agree that some things can be vague, and lawyers like to argue the little stuff, but I don believe anyone(besides you) is arguing that having workers at a party takes away private status.

They do at least use a little logic

Like I said, the spin is there.

We have some huge venues around here -- most owned and operated by my "extended family" -- their names all end in vowels like mine. I can walk into any room, at any time, without being invited (I usually wear a t-shirt and jeans and sneakers). So when I walk in there, it becomes a public event. Most of the venues up here use union people.

I've haven't been thrown out yet, I just go to watch the bands (have been thrown out of small bars though -probably justified in some cases). Not sure what's like in Cleveland, although I've been there once or twice in my travels. I did like the Drew Carey theme song though.

 

[Proformance]

If you want to define "private event", let's give it a shot...

...You can spin it any way you like -- but it does not mean it's proper, and conforms with the rule of law...

Public vs Private performance has a clear and rock solid legal definition; time tested, Supreme court affirmed, and most recently reiterated by the Congressional committee on Copyright so, F--- you, idiot. The long standing legal definition is nearly as old as radio.

It is precisely because of those clear legal definitions that performing rights organizations like ASACP and BMI are able to exist and function.

Rick,
Wake up poser. There is now 100 years of Copyright Decision and precedent on the books. The fact that you haven't got a clue when it comes to even the most basic of performing right concepts (..and yet call yourself a DJ) is not spin - just a display of lazy stupidity on your part!

 

[SoftJock Rick]

Public vs Private performance has a clear and rock solid legal definition; time tested, Supreme court affirmed, and most recently reiterated by the Congressional committee on Copyright so, F--- you, idiot. The long standing legal definition is nearly as old as radio.

It is precisely because of those clear legal definitions that performing rights organizations like ASACP and BMI are able to exist and function.

Rick,
Wake up poser. There is now 100 years of Copyright Decision and precedent on the books. The fact that you haven't got a clue when it comes to even the most basic of performing right concepts (..and yet call yourself a DJ) is not spin - just a display of lazy stupidity on your part!

Gee, we're back to name calling.

Since you seem to be our online lawyer and have knowledge of all judges on the planet, could you cite some of that case law for the rest of the class, so we can all be as well informed as you?

 

[Audio One]

Public vs Private performance has a clear and rock solid legal definition; time tested, Supreme court affirmed, and most recently reiterated by the Congressional committee on Copyright so, F--- you, idiot. The long standing legal definition is nearly as old as radio.

It is precisely because of those clear legal definitions that performing rights organizations like ASACP and BMI are able to exist and function.

Rick,
Wake up poser. There is now 100 years of Copyright Decision and precedent on the books. The fact that you haven't got a clue when it comes to even the most basic of performing right concepts (..and yet call yourself a DJ) is not spin - just a display of lazy stupidity on your part!

This forum only has 3 rules.-

1. Be respectful of your fellow members.
2. Report any problems.
3. Don't spam.

1. How low can you go Pro?

.

 

[rickryan.com]

1. How low can you go Pro?

He's an angry elf.

 

[ittigger]

He's an angry elf.

That's frickin' hilarious! Last time I heard that was from a friend of mine, also in TN. That makes it even funnier!!!

 

[ahoustondj]

This forum only has 3 rules.-

1. Be respectful of your fellow members.
2. Report any problems.
3. Don't spam.

1. How low can you go Pro?

.

You guys sure know who to pick and choose when it is time for accusations. Have you taken a look at Mix's threads lately? From the very beginning he has been called everything under the sun. If sanctions were imposed on all those offenders, the forum will be empty of the regular posters. This is hypocrisy. If you are going to speak up now then speak up every time! Don't be giving your buddies a pass and dumping on others.