Discussion: Will most clients choose a DJ who is "OKAY" to save $$$?

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Albatross said:
Now, if the goal is more reps and exposure... sure. It feels good to be busy. But I'd hate to own a business where product is flying off the shelves, but I'm still not making much money, and my upside is VERY limited by supply side constraints.
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I agree, I'd rather be working less events, and earing considerably more money per event, but to a point. Booking only 10 - 15 weddings a year at $1,500 to $2,000 isn't going to help me a whole lot. For one, I'd have much more time to spend that money I made. Now, if I am able to book 35 - 45 events at say $1,000 average, then add another 20 or so low paying gigs on off dates earning around $400 - $500...That shows a full time, healthy DJ business.

Finding the Happy Medium in frequency of work, and compensation for that work is much more beneficial to a full timer than reaching for the stars and trying to charge what the market can bare for a Wedding DJ.


Also, we are talking a DJ Business. What are the actual hard costs of doing an event to a DJ who spends zero to very little ever year (say $500) on advertising, and their equipment is already paid in full. Maybe they get all their music for free, or only spend maybe $50 on music over the course of a year. The reality is that many DJs look at the cost of doing the gig as just Gas and Parking expenses.

In many DJs minds, the costs to do a gig is like $50. ...Even if they are only charging $300, they are turning 5x Profit. If they charge $500, they are getting 9X profit. It doesn't really work out that way, but many DJs think like that, so there is no need to try to charge $1,500, or anywhere near it to do a wedding.
 
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DJ Ricky B said:
Also, we are talking a DJ Business. What are the actual hard costs of doing an event to a DJ who spends zero to very little ever year (say $500) on advertising, and their equipment is already paid in full. Maybe they get all their music for free, or only spend maybe $50 on music over the course of a year. The reality is that many DJs look at the cost of doing the gig as just Gas and Parking expenses.

In many DJs minds, the costs to do a gig is like $50. ...Even if they are only charging $300, they are turning 5x Profit. If they charge $500, they are getting 9X profit. It doesn't really work out that way, but many DJs think like that, so there is no need to try to charge $1,500, or anywhere near it to do a wedding.
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This is totally how most DJs think, but it shouldn't be. I personally cycle my gear about every 5-6 years depending on the piece. But, I do it in stages. My K-10s are probably 6 years old now, and they're the next thing that is likely to get upgraded on my rig. But I try to do small pieces every year versus making a huge investment at once.

Could you make the gear last forever... sure. Some guys still use speakers from the 80s, but they look VERY dated. Making a regular investment in your business of some kind is way easier.
 
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Albatross said:
This is totally how most DJs think, but it shouldn't be. I personally cycle my gear about every 5-6 years depending on the piece. But, I do it in stages. My K-10s are probably 6 years old now, and they're the next thing that is likely to get upgraded on my rig. But I try to do small pieces every year versus making a huge investment at once.

Could you make the gear last forever... sure. Some guys still use speakers from the 80s, but they look VERY dated. Making a regular investment in your business of some kind is way easier.
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The other issue, is there are many DJs who get into business, purchase gear ONCE...then start deejaying and do it for a few years then fade out of business. Those DJs never got out of the $300 - $500 price range, and then the cycle continues.
 
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Few know business - look at all the grief trump is getting over his tax return.

If you do 10 gigs vs 40 your cost per gig is much higher. Gear and insurance and marketing are pretty much fixed costs and if it's 1500 a year you spend/budget on them over 10 gigs that's $150 per gig vs $37.50.

Now the guy that has a cost of $38/gig can take a $300 weekday party and make a buck, almost all of it is profit. The 10 gig guy is gonna incur $130/140 in overhead costs for that $300 gig.

If I spend $4oo a year on music and do 10 gigs it's $40/gig in music..and there is pretty much a bottom on what you spend - new songs come out and you gotta have em. Even if you do apple music there's a monthly cost to it. If you do 40 gigs then your music is $10/gig.

Volume DOES count for somethings.

now time, labor, is what it is.

This weekend's wedding emailed today - we talked, met, talked, I lined up music, we emailed, now talk again - so what, 2 hours invested so far? Load up 20 min, drive an hour, setup 45min, be early 30 min, 5 hours of 'work', then teardown, drive an hour, unload 15 min. Plus gas of course.

How many think "5 hour gig - $300 - I make $60 an hour!"
 
IceBurghDJ said:
Several ways to answer that..."what is he giving you for that price?" - most don't really know, and you can ask "x soundsystem, lighting, 100 million songs, etc" - you come out sounding better.
You can say "when you eat out is it always at mcdonalds?" - of course not they'lll say " so then lowest price isn't always the most important thing to you is it?" (a big harsh but some people need it delivered that way).
Best is always "let me ask you, what is most important about your event/party?" - 'that people have a good time' or similar is usually the answer. "ok, so it's not price then?"...
Hopefully you bring up many other things, perhaps 'have you hired a dj before? been to a party with a Dj and what did you like or not like about it?" etc.
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I hear the argument quite often on this site...
about trying to explain value vs. price to a client who is trying to make a deal.
Most of the time, you never get the chance to really talk about it.
As soon as they find a lower price...all discussions are closed.
Then you become the annoying used car salesman who won't take no for an answer.

I look at it this way, if you DO get the opportunity to discuss value...
if you make a great case, and you DO sell them on hiring you...
now you've just raised your own bar, and put all the pressure on yourself to deliver.
If one tiny little thing goes wrong...the client will give you twice the hassles...
cause you're the one who talked her out of hiring the other guy.
 
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tunes4046 said:
Or it could be really be a better bed, have more features, maybe its comes with bedding, or a lifetime warranty.


I don't buy things like that on payments, at 46 years old I long ago figured out not to buy that kind of stuff until I can afford it, I will take advantage of 0% interest financing if its offered, The only things I finance are vehicles and property at this point
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Just be careful of the 0% interest thing because as soon as you miss a payment or the payment is not paid by the due date, then that's when they hit you with a interest fee. They already figured out over several years you're not going to be able to make a payment on time or not at all one month. Myself I setup my monthly payments for my van and the insurance to automatically be taken out from my checking account so I don't have to worry how they are to be paid since at anytime things can come up.
 
Ausumm said:
I hear the argument quite often on this site...
about trying to explain value vs. price to a client who is trying to make a deal.
Most of the time, you never get the chance to really talk about it.
As soon as they find a lower price...all discussions are closed.
Then you become the annoying used car salesman who won't take no for an answer.

I look at it this way, if you DO get the opportunity to discuss value...
if you make a great case, and you DO sell them on hiring you...
now you've just raised your own bar, and put all the pressure on yourself to deliver.
If one tiny little thing goes wrong...the client will give you twice the hassles...
cause you're the one who talked her out of hiring the other guy.
Click to expand...


If that situation arises, then you need to trust your instincts before booking them. Are there any red flags about the client going off?

If they seem to be the type of client who will micro manage you, then it might be best to walk away, and let them go with the lower priced DJ.
 
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IceBurghDJ said:
Few know business - look at all the grief trump is getting over his tax return.

If you do 10 gigs vs 40 your cost per gig is much higher. Gear and insurance and marketing are pretty much fixed costs and if it's 1500 a year you spend/budget on them over 10 gigs that's $150 per gig vs $37.50.

Now the guy that has a cost of $38/gig can take a $300 weekday party and make a buck, almost all of it is profit. The 10 gig guy is gonna incur $130/140 in overhead costs for that $300 gig.

If I spend $4oo a year on music and do 10 gigs it's $40/gig in music..and there is pretty much a bottom on what you spend - new songs come out and you gotta have em. Even if you do apple music there's a monthly cost to it. If you do 40 gigs then your music is $10/gig.

Volume DOES count for somethings.

now time, labor, is what it is.

This weekend's wedding emailed today - we talked, met, talked, I lined up music, we emailed, now talk again - so what, 2 hours invested so far? Load up 20 min, drive an hour, setup 45min, be early 30 min, 5 hours of 'work', then teardown, drive an hour, unload 15 min. Plus gas of course.

How many think "5 hour gig - $300 - I make $60 an hour!"
Click to expand...


Argument from some DJs...
"I don't count the travel time to and from a job as an employee...Why should I count that when going to and from a DJ gig?"

Most DJs do account for load in/set up/tear down/load out time though...that is all still "on the clock" work so to speak.

...From the minute you get into your vehicle to drive to the event, and the minute you get into your vehicle to drive home is debatable. It's time you are spending traveling, but in comparison to "commuting to a day job" ...It doesn't count since day jobs don't pay you while you commute to and from work.

People generally commute further for a job that compensates them more money for their time at the job. ...People who travel 5 to 10 minutes into work typically are working a low wage position...Not always the case though.
 
MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
ust be careful of the 0% interest thing because as soon as you miss a payment or the payment is not paid by the due date, then that's when they hit you with a interest fee.
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I don't have those problems Mix, I watch my finances very very carefully, if they offer 12 month interestd free with no payments, the last month I simply pay in full
 
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Ausumm said:
I hear the argument quite often on this site...
about trying to explain value vs. price to a client who is trying to make a deal.
Most of the time, you never get the chance to really talk about it.
As soon as they find a lower price...all discussions are closed.
Then you become the annoying used car salesman who won't take no for an answer.
Click to expand...

I've learned that I would much rather get a "no" than a non-answer or a "maybe." If it's a no, I can move on really easily. If they simply haven't responded, I might keep pursuing the lead, and run that risk of annoying them to death.

So, if I'm sending my third un-answered correspondence I typically say something to the effect of... "If you've decided to go a different direction for your entertainment, I want you to feel comfortable letting me know. I certainly don't want to be a bother."

That line often prompts a response. That response might be, "Yes, we booked someone else" in which case - "Great, I wish you the best!" and I can get on to other things. But, I also get a lot of "Sorry we haven't gotten back to you, we've been super busy... we still want to talk."

Both of those are 100% okay with me. I don't want to waste my time on a prospect that has moved on. But many prospects are uncomfortable making that rejection. I'd rather have them feel better about it so I can get to the truth. And, obviously, if they are still interested, it's a good thing.
 
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Albatross said:
I've learned that I would much rather get a "no" than a non-answer or a "maybe." If it's a no, I can move on really easily. If they simply haven't responded, I might keep pursuing the lead, and run that risk of annoying them to death.

So, if I'm sending my third un-answered correspondence I typically say something to the effect of... "If you've decided to go a different direction for your entertainment, I want you to feel comfortable letting me know. I certainly don't want to be a bother."

That line often prompts a response. That response might be, "Yes, we booked someone else" in which case - "Great, I wish you the best!" and I can get on to other things. But, I also get a lot of "Sorry we haven't gotten back to you, we've been super busy... we still want to talk."

Both of those are 100% okay with me. I don't want to waste my time on a prospect that has moved on. But many prospects are uncomfortable making that rejection. I'd rather have them feel better about it so I can get to the truth. And, obviously, if they are still interested, it's a good thing.
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I'm really enjoying reading your thoughts. Thanks for joining. You make a really salient point above. A non-response just keeps consuming your time and the nudge you use is the perfect way to get to an answer, either way. I will say though, in the past, I've had all my prospects on a weekly email list and there have been a lot of events where they booked someone else, the DJ cancelled, and I picked up the booking, all because I never quit asking for it. If the lead is actively consuming my time and energy, an answer needs to be reached as soon as possible. If the follow-up system is passive (automated), I don't care in the least if I'm bugging them.
 
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DJ Ricky B said:
Argument from some DJs...
"I don't count the travel time to and from a job as an employee...Why should I count that when going to and from a DJ gig?"

Most DJs do account for load in/set up/tear down/load out time though...that is all still "on the clock" work so to speak.
Click to expand...

I think the issue is more one-off employment versus continual employment. In the latter, nobody pays travel to/from work. In the former, it's up to the provider to either include it in their price or negotiate it as an additional fee. In my own case, and I suspect like most people here, I give the first 100 miles of travel (50 miles each way) as part of the standard price. After that, it's $1 per mile traveled.
 
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rickryan.com said:
I think the issue is more one-off employment versus continual employment. In the latter, nobody pays travel to/from work. In the former, it's up to the provider to either include it in their price or negotiate it as an additional fee. In my own case, and I suspect like most people here, I give the first 100 miles of travel (50 miles each way) as part of the standard price. After that, it's $1 per mile traveled.
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With the exception of some hobbyists who take gigs as extra income here and there (but won't travel far for it) ...I think most DJs are willing to travel 50 miles each way included as their fee. Most service areas have potential events coming from 30 - 50 miles from either direction of where a DJ resides.

With us, we charge enough that we will gladly drive up to about 75-80 miles one way before we start charging for mileage unless it's a "Special Price" being advertised. Since the price is considerably lower (Say a Friday Party Special)...then we want the ad to attract events within a 4o or 50 mile drive. We will do the further drives under the special, but I will charge $2.00 per mile 1 way. Another 30 miles out...I'll charge them $60 extra. It usually doesn't happen though because those prospects will usually find a closer DJ who is offering a lower price anyway.

I was just getting at the fact that some DJs don't account for the travel time as actual time being spent working. I get paid to go to work for 8 hours. ...A 5 hour gig is basically 8 hours of my time with load in and set up, and loading my car up, and spending 30 to 60 minutes to call them. down load music etc. ...The actual time being spent driving to and from the gig is on me... It's just what I have seen some DJs post on forums.

A 3 to 5 hour gig is basically 8 to 9 hours of their time...Travel time to and from the gig doesn't count as time working. ...Even though it's still your time being used. ...When I say I spend 12 - 16 hours on every wedding for the most part...I include the travel time in that time I am spending on the wedding. Some other DJs may only think of a wedding is 8 to 9 hours of their actual time.
 
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tunes4046 said:
I don't have those problems Mix, I watch my finances very very carefully, if they offer 12 month interestd free with no payments, the last month I simply pay in full
Click to expand...
Myself I have both the payment for the van and the insurance automatically come out so I don't worry about how they will get paid.
 
Saw this on facebook this morning

A lady wanted to purchase a beautiful hand crocheted dress and spotted a crafter who did absolutely amazing work, but she charged a good price too. The lady thought that her price was way too high so she approached the crocheter and in quite a brusque fashion stated "I want to buy a dress from you, but I think you charge too much."

The crafter was a little taken aback but replied "Ok, how much do you think i should charge?" The lady replied “I think you should charge “X” much, because the yarn will cost this much, and ribbons this much, and buttons this much. I even factored in the price of scissors." The final price the lady had calculated was a lot cheaper than the crafter's original price, but she said "Ok, deal. You will get your dress in a week".

The customer is very pleased with herself and can’t resist telling all her friends what a fabulous deal she has negotiated and how smart she is, and that in a week she will have her gorgeous crocheted dress.

A week later her parcel arrives in a lovely packaged box. She opens it and inside is yarn, ribbons, buttons and even scissors. Angrily she contacts the crafter asking “How could you do this to me? I asked you for a dress and you sent me a box of yarn, ribbon, buttons and scissors?!"

The crafter quietly replies "My dear, you got exactly what you paid for, if you think there is something missing, you need to pay for it."


Ausumm said:
I hear the argument quite often on this site...
about trying to explain value vs. price to a client who is trying to make a deal.
Most of the time, you never get the chance to really talk about it.
As soon as they find a lower price...all discussions are closed.
Then you become the annoying used car salesman who won't take no for an answer.

I look at it this way, if you DO get the opportunity to discuss value...
if you make a great case, and you DO sell them on hiring you...
now you've just raised your own bar, and put all the pressure on yourself to deliver.
If one tiny little thing goes wrong...the client will give you twice the hassles...
cause you're the one who talked her out of hiring the other guy.
Click to expand...
 
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I look at it this way...

If I worked for you and you told me "go get the gear and drive to butler" I'd expect to be paid for the drive.
The IRS lets me write off the miles as I leave my driveway.

Now the 'value' of that travel time is less, as is the setup/teardown. You cna hire that stuff out at $15/hour.

The performing part, that is gonna be a more costly hire.

And you have $x invested in gear - that needs to make some money for you, or you'd have been better off to put it in a CD or stocks.

But many consider that more as a cost, a necessity, than something that needs to earn it's keep. And while you do need a basic level of gear, will dripping $5k on that new RCF or Bose system make you more money - as in pay for itself, save you time ? If not then it'd be like hiring 2 people to stand and watch you work. Money spent with no benefit.


There is a cost to commuting - both in time away from other things and in cost of gas, wear and tear on your car, etc. When we first married my wife got a job about an hour's drive away, didn't like relying on an old beater car, so we got a new car. She put on 100k miles in less than 4 years and wanted another new one...but we owed a lot mroe than it was worth that mileage...so now the cost of working an hour away is truly financial in nature.

DJ Ricky B said:
Argument from some DJs...
"I don't count the travel time to and from a job as an employee...Why should I count that when going to and from a DJ gig?"

Most DJs do account for load in/set up/tear down/load out time though...that is all still "on the clock" work so to speak.

...From the minute you get into your vehicle to drive to the event, and the minute you get into your vehicle to drive home is debatable. It's time you are spending traveling, but in comparison to "commuting to a day job" ...It doesn't count since day jobs don't pay you while you commute to and from work.

People generally commute further for a job that compensates them more money for their time at the job. ...People who travel 5 to 10 minutes into work typically are working a low wage position...Not always the case though.
Click to expand...
 
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I saw a add where the bride was looking for someone who could provide a video setup for her wedding since the DJ she booked doesn't provide that. I wonder why she didn't look to book a DJ that could provide everything she wanted instead of going that route? I bet she's looking for the cheapest price she can find.
 
First sorry for the misspelling of ad. Here is where it's really at. First what needs to be found out is what is the potential client looking for. Some are looking for just the basic DJ service. Others are looking for more. With that being said what do you have to offer? Just basic DJ service or more. Some of you can supply uplights, intelligent lighting, photobooths and so on including monograms with some type of writing on it for all to see.

A big part has to do with what will you go out for and what you won't. It also may depend on how busy you are and how bad do you need to work. I need more work for sure but I do have a bottom line that I won't cross when it comes to doing a private event for a client. I have to do this or it's a race to the bottom. From a business stand point I have to do it. I got to leave my heart out of it because I'm a softee. I'm a really nice guy and at times that hurts me more then it helps me. Some don't like it but I tell them sometimes it's business and nothing personal.

There's someone on these forums selling a great setup. 4 JBL tops and subs with a bunch of amps to power those speakers. The person selling the stuff said they bought the stuff some time ago thinking they were going to be doing school dances with that setup. They said they haven't gotten to use that setup due to clients not wanting to pay the money they want to use at their event. When I saw what he is selling I was drooling at the mouth. I certainly wouldn't do a gig for $500 with that setup. That setup looks like you would need to rent a vehicle to move all that stuff. I might do it for 1k once just to be able to have some pictures and video of the stuff to show to potential clients. I said I might and it would be hard for me to do it for that price. Simply put at times no matter how bad I want to do a gig I just got to say no and move on.
 
that's how businesses lose $1b as trump did - you buy stuff to make money and don't- and sell it.

I try to sell the jobs then buy the gear - if you book in feb for october you have time to get teh gear and learn to use it (be that uplighting, dmx, monogram, photobooth, etc).

What can happen are two things - one may be preventable. DO a bit of market research - what do school dances pay? Is it worth having the proper gear to do it right for that price? If you do 30 of them perhaps, 3 probably not. Knowledge is power!

Or maybe you need it to sell it - sample pics of uplighting, a demo of the photobooth at a bridal show (sells 5X as much as no booth to show/demo), etc.

Business is risk, and that risk should pay off. You can take $5k and buy gear and go work gigs, or can put that 5k into something else - gold, stocks, stuff to sell on ebay, etc.

MIXMASTERMACHOM said:
First sorry for the misspelling of ad. Here is where it's really at. First what needs to be found out is what is the potential client looking for. Some are looking for just the basic DJ service. Others are looking for more. With that being said what do you have to offer? Just basic DJ service or more. Some of you can supply uplights, intelligent lighting, photobooths and so on including monograms with some type of writing on it for all to see.

A big part has to do with what will you go out for and what you won't. It also may depend on how busy you are and how bad do you need to work. I need more work for sure but I do have a bottom line that I won't cross when it comes to doing a private event for a client. I have to do this or it's a race to the bottom. From a business stand point I have to do it. I got to leave my heart out of it because I'm a softee. I'm a really nice guy and at times that hurts me more then it helps me. Some don't like it but I tell them sometimes it's business and nothing personal.

There's someone on these forums selling a great setup. 4 JBL tops and subs with a bunch of amps to power those speakers. The person selling the stuff said they bought the stuff some time ago thinking they were going to be doing school dances with that setup. They said they haven't gotten to use that setup due to clients not wanting to pay the money they want to use at their event. When I saw what he is selling I was drooling at the mouth. I certainly wouldn't do a gig for $500 with that setup. That setup looks like you would need to rent a vehicle to move all that stuff. I might do it for 1k once just to be able to have some pictures and video of the stuff to show to potential clients. I said I might and it would be hard for me to do it for that price. Simply put at times no matter how bad I want to do a gig I just got to say no and move on.
Click to expand...
 
IceBurghDJ said:
that's how businesses lose $1b as trump did - you buy stuff to make money and don't- and sell it.

I try to sell the jobs then buy the gear - if you book in feb for october you have time to get teh gear and learn to use it (be that uplighting, dmx, monogram, photobooth, etc).

What can happen are two things - one may be preventable. DO a bit of market research - what do school dances pay? Is it worth having the proper gear to do it right for that price? If you do 30 of them perhaps, 3 probably not. Knowledge is power!

Or maybe you need it to sell it - sample pics of uplighting, a demo of the photobooth at a bridal show (sells 5X as much as no booth to show/demo), etc.

Business is risk, and that risk should pay off. You can take $5k and buy gear and go work gigs, or can put that 5k into something else - gold, stocks, stuff to sell on ebay, etc.
Click to expand...
I do my part to spur the economy, so I buy gear .. and more gear .. then a few added pieces .. then replace stuff .. WELLLL before I ever need it. :)
 
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