Well the Knot refused my counter offer

Every year, there is an influx of DJ advertisers on the Knot. Now, in my market, there are 30 dj's, which is crazy!

That will dwindle off rather quickly and we will be back to 18 or so.

Advertising on the Knot is not for everyone, I assure you. It works for me.

i've knoen photographers to swear by tht knot and just as many that feel the opposite.

Tells me like any other marketing, it's not the medium as much as the message and you you use the tool

IceBurghDJ said:

i've knoen photographers to swear by tht knot and just as many that feel the opposite.

Tells me like any other marketing, it's not the medium as much as the message and you you use the tool

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I have to admit, this discussion is what spurred me into trying it again. After reviewing magic's presentation, and the quality he projects, I went back and looked at what I had in place on TK last year. It's hard to admit, but I can see why we weren't getting the calls. My portfolio sucked yet, we actually did still get some bookings off it. I updated our photos yesterday and frankly was pretty shocked at how much better our stuff is now. I still feel like we have a long way to go in getting those dreamy, highly emotional shots, but we WILL get there. By my estimation, 8 bundled gigs will bring in $20k in revenue, which is what I'd consider a good ROI for the advertising platform. My only fear is that his area has better TK utilization than mine, or that I'm still sub-standard on quality among my competitors. I think we're holding our own at this point but the proof is in the bookings. BTW, here's the current TK page. Comments (constructive, please) are welcome.

Ryan Wedding Photography, DJ & Lighting

One more thing, as a side FYI note. TK dinged me $156/month and gave me a 10% discount for paying the entire year, up-front. This is for a featured listing. Guaranteed 1st page placement. They have a premium which guarantees the first 6 slots. I told my rep that I wanted to monitor this level and if the activity is there, I may bump up. It runs another $100/month to get premium placement. Might work differently in your areas.

yeah, i'm not happy with my marketing materials (images, video) either...hopefully I cna find some time to go thru it all and pick and choose the best bits and get some 'porcine beauty cream' to make it look better.

I have TY notes like he has, but pictures of them? no. shame on me!

rickryan.com said:

I have to admit, this discussion is what spurred me into trying it again. After reviewing magic's presentation, and the quality he projects, I went back and looked at what I had in place on TK last year. It's hard to admit, but I can see why we weren't getting the calls. My portfolio sucked yet, we actually did still get some bookings off it. I updated our photos yesterday and frankly was pretty shocked at how much better our stuff is now. I still feel like we have a long way to go in getting those dreamy, highly emotional shots, but we WILL get there. By my estimation, 8 bundled gigs will bring in $20k in revenue, which is what I'd consider a good ROI for the advertising platform. My only fear is that his area has better TK utilization than mine, or that I'm still sub-standard on quality among my competitors. I think we're holding our own at this point but the proof is in the bookings. BTW, here's the current TK page. Comments (constructive, please) are welcome.

Ryan Wedding Photography, DJ & Lighting

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Who are you talking to?

djmagicmoments said:

Who are you talking to?

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you have pictures of ty notes/reviews or whatever you want to call them on your knot page and website. i've seen others to do it too. I like it.

I need to market more, to be honest I should be a marketing person first and whatever second or even hire it out. But if I wanted to be a marketer I have a degree in that, a job in the field or a marketing business! LOL

It looks like you are answering questions that no one is asking... do your own thing bro.

I'll try not to seem like I am NOT bragging when I answer questions.

I quoted rick..so I was replying to him. I thought that was obvious, but maybe not.
He was commenting on your content on TK. I was replying to that.

djmagicmoments said:

It looks like you are answering questions that no one is asking... do your own thing bro.

I'll try not to seem like I am NOT bragging when I answer questions.

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You guys DO realize that some forms of advertising work for some people...and not for others!
There are SO many variables!
The ONLY system of advertising that works for ALL of us is WORD OF MOUTH.
Fortunately, it's also FREE advertising.

Ausumm said:

The ONLY system of advertising that works for ALL of us is WORD OF MOUTH.
Fortunately, it's also FREE advertising.

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I CAN SECOND THAT!!

You have no control over WOM - what is said, who says it, when they say it, to whom they say it, or if it's said at all.
It'd be great if everyone at an event/wedding went home and told everyone they know about you. Doens't happen.

IF you rock it then maybe someone will notive and be impressed and remember that you're good. BUT ... do they know how to refer you (name, number, etc?)
It's unlikely they'll randomly tell people about you. I bet you don't do much of that, so they won't either.

So you're only hope is when someone within earshot of them mentions something that needs a DJ they'll but in and speak up with your name. Now it does happen.

In DJNews there is an article on referrals that is over the top...'you should get the prospect and referring person and yourself all together and chat"..in what world does he live that folks have this kind of time?

At work they talk about say, wings, so I mention my fave place for wings..but i'm not gonna take them there and intro them to the owner, and the same for where i get my car fixed or bought my last guitar.

To me a referral is when you get a call "I"m getting married and debbie told me to call you" Anything isn't a referral IMO.

WOM would be "I'm getting married and I've heard good things about you" and you ask where/from who.

If they say "the reviews online of you are great" - is that WOM?

Ausumm said:

You guys DO realize that some forms of advertising work for some people...and not for others!
There are SO many variables!
The ONLY system of advertising that works for ALL of us is WORD OF MOUTH.
Fortunately, it's also FREE advertising.

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Referrals (Who are having events on in season demand dates) are the highest paying clientele.

I had a referral for a Party on March 11th...After a 7 minute phone conversation it was a pretty painless booking. I gave her a discount since it's an Off Season Date. Booked it quite quick. I'm eager to book February and March dates.

I foresee this year being a low expenditure/high profit year. I'm sticking to my rates, and rates for in season dates were increased this year. It's book and work or, or stay home and drink rum/diet pepsis, and get on my wife's nerves on weekends I'm not out earning money...either way I'm going to have FUN...and that's the way the Cookie will Crumble this year!

I will say if it isn't freakin' cold out or snowing/raining crappy weather...I make sure this job is FUN for me. When I look back at all the gigs I have done 99.6% of them were Enjoyable and totally worth doing! Get paid well, and do what I love to do? That's the life right there! Put some positivity in your thinking! Life is better that way!

A little update on my experience with TheKnot (this go around). On 1/10/17, I paid them $1600 for a year as a featured vendor. There is a higher tier, but it runs $100/month. If it pays off, I may upgrade in a few months. Anyways, today, I got my first lead in (after 2 weeks of listing). Made the pitch, not sure what will happen, etc. etc. In looking at analytics, their panel says that (since the first of the month) I've had 42 visitors and 21 click-thrus. Google analytics, Bing analytics and SquareSpace analytics all say I've had ZERO referrals from TheKnot.com. Not sure who's lying, although I suspect it's TK, but getting leads and gigs is the issue. Landing a single gig this year pays for the advertising. If I can land 10 off it, I'm thrilled.

Now that's funny!

So far today, 3 inquiries. One phone call scheduled for tonight. Perhaps with Steve... haha

rickryan.com said:

Landing a single gig this year pays for the advertising. If I can land 10 off it, I'm thrilled.

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I don't like that saying because it is not really true when you factor in all the time, and expenses of the gig. Landing a single gig IF booked at $1,600 on that gig would end up being a net loss still. ...I also hate how sales people try to use that line as a selling tactic.

At $1,600 a year, I want to see $8,000 in revenue directly due to the advertisement. ...and that is for starters.


With that said...The Knot is higher price in my area, and they don't rank as high as Wedding Wire on google searches...However, they also have less Featured DJs on their 1st page compared to Wedding Wire...It's a less cluttered directory.

One of the agents that I collaborate with has a listing on the Knot. She does get work from it. I have worked a couple clients from her that came from the Knot. ...I actually think the bride for this Saturday came from the Knot through the agent, and then filtered to me.

I talked with a bride about an hour ago who was a referral.


In stark contrast...I had a Gig Masters lead that I gave to my brother to call...He called the lead right away, and she hung up the phone on him as soon as he said he was a DJ following up on the online quote she just got. My quote was exactly her maximum "budget" she specified...WOW. ....I mean why fill out an online form, state that you have a specific budget, then when a DJ calls you hang up on them. Shouldn't they expect to be contacted...especially when they stated Phone, or Email is preferred way to contact them...Some people are just whack.

DJ Ricky B said:

I don't like that saying because it is not really true when you factor in all the time, and expenses of the gig. Landing a single gig IF booked at $1,600 on that gig would end up being a net loss still. ...I also hate how sales people try to use that line as a selling tactic.

At $1,600 a year, I want to see $8,000 in revenue directly due to the advertisement. ...and that is for starters.

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Our combo package average is around the $2500 mark. That's with me, my wife and son working it. Mostly profit. If I land 10 gigs, we're talking $25,000 in gross revenue on a $1600 advertising budget. I can work with that. IF that proves out, I can likely push that ad into the top-of-page slot and pickup another 10 gigs off it. That puts me at $50k in gross revenue with a $3k advertising cost. That's a lot more relaxed schedule than trying to juggle 80-100 events. I'm thinking magic may be right about the number of reviews and I'm going to be pushing hard to bring that number up.

BTW, wife and I have been talking and working on our sites. I think we're going to drop the dj & lighting from her site (carolynryanphotography.com) and keep it on mine (rickryan.com) and see what happens. In the past 48 hours, I've gotten 2 leads (about to book 1) off her website and 1 off TheKnot (low budget event for 2/11, I give it 40% chance). She thinks that DJ & Lighting is hurting the photography pitch. She may be right, or I may be crazy.